Your WEBSITE HOMEPAGE may be sleeping on the job. Here’s why!

We could probably talk for four or five hours about all the different things that you might, yeah. Need to consider and all this stuff. I'm kind of surprised anybody wants to get into the whole web business anymore.

Welcome to the marketing team at one podcast where we have conversations about the issues one person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now, here's your host, Eric and Mike. Well, Mike, we're gonna talk today about websites. Obviously you've brought some, uh, contraption with you today.

We got tools. Yes, yes. We're gonna, we're gonna. Bring another layer of tech to this podcast today that just builds upon itself and it turns it's gonna be this incredible machine eventually. Yeah. It's really fun to play with this stuff too, right? It is, yeah. I mean, I'm like, I'm a dork for all this stuff, so, yeah.

Yes.

Uh, but I do love looking at websites and that's one of the big things that we do around here is we are, people come to us all the time, uh, my website, X, Y, Z, whatever it is, and they have issues and want us to talk about it with them. Yeah. And see what we can help and improve, and we're gonna walk through a few of those websites today.

Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of times people have this inclination that their white website sucks. Like, oh, I hate our website. Like they don't wanna show it to anybody. But I think a lot of times they might not even know. Exactly why, but sometimes it's, it's other stuff because I, the, let's be real, the customers aren't seeing that, those problems.

Mm-hmm. They're seeing a different set of problems, right? Mm-hmm. And so, um, that's, I think that's the lens we're gonna look through. Everything today is like when your customer comes to your website, you know, what are, what are they seeing? We're gonna be talking more about just experiential. Yep. First person, Hey, I'm just, Hey, let's look at this website, pull it up, and then talk about it.

Or preach all the time, know your audience well. What is your audience looking for in the website? What are their goals? Obviously they're gonna be a, a mixed bag of different options that, you know, maybe they want to go buy something or download something or just learn about somebody or just look up your address.

Or, there's a multitude of ways people enter. Look why people look at your website again, as we go through all these things we're looking at, at the website, trying to optimize for like a gut reaction, right? Mm. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean this, it would be great if everybody came to our website and our websites and sat there and like it was the latest episode of Severance or something like that, and just word.

Dive gonna dive in, right? And like, couldn't get enough, couldn't get enough, couldn't wait. Almost appointment watching. I'm gonna look at this website and I'm gonna enjoy it. You know, some popcorn. Mm-hmm. It's, it's not that way. People, we need to make sure that we capture people's attention as quickly as possible.

Um, and be very clear about it and about what our website, who it's for, what we can do for everybody. And um, so we wanna optimize everything about it. Mm-hmm. Around that gut reaction, those points. So let's cover this. The basics of what we're gonna cover today. We're gonna talk about, obviously design.

'cause that's one of the major things. How does it look? How does it feel? Does it express your brand? Does it fit into your brand? A, as everything else does. 'cause really, this is probably one of the most important touch points of your whole brand system is your website. That's probably the second most important thing after your, maybe your logo or something like that, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The design is, is, is super important. We wanna make sure that it, it reflects your brand identity and everything you've got going on there, right? Mm-hmm. Are you using the same colors that for your same color palette that you're using on social media and your other materials that are out there?

Are you using the same typefaces? Are you using the same types of imagery? We wanna make sure that that's reflected there and, 'cause you're right, the website is one of the most visible brand pieces out there, right? Yes. I mean, another important thing is of, of brand is the messaging, right? And the wording and all the stuff are, are we being clear and effective in our messaging on, on the website?

Are we explaining who we are? Um, but more importantly, what we can do, what we're, what we're here to do, what, what problems are we here to solve? What, what's the mission of, of the organization? Um, those all three, those are messaging things that should be apparent. Right away. Yep. As well. So that's the words, basically.

The words, yeah. The very concise, the word part of the brand. Mm-hmm. This all together still represents your overall brand, right? Mm-hmm. But these, those are two of the more probably visible things that would be, um, extensions of your brand. And then the next thing would be kind of the user experience, which gets into like, navigation.

Yeah. Kind of experience, like, making sure that you've got, you get people to where they want to get to as quickly and as efficiently as possible. When we talk about the user experience, right? Mm-hmm. We wanna know, like mm-hmm. Um, you know, equate it to the website. Most of the time if somebody's coming to the website, they have a job they're trying to get done Right.

Or some kind of action they want to take. Right. So knowing, again, knowing your audience, knowing your customer, knowing what jobs they're trying to get fulfilled. When they come to that website, we should have a clear answer for them to walk them to that path to success. Yep. Right. So a good user experience would remove any friction in that.

I guess a good example is like maybe if you're a local business, right? And one of the key things that people might want to do, let's say you're a restaurant, right? If you're a restaurant, one of the key things that people might come to the website for is they wanna know where you are. Mm-hmm. Right? So you should make your address very clear to find.

Very easy to find. Yep. If you're a place that takes reservations, you wanna get the reservation number right up front. Yep. Um, having the menu. Right up front. Those are three tasks that people are looking to do when they go to a restaurant website. And so you wanna make that as effortless as possible for people when they come to that website.

One of the last things I guess to consider is just how does the website perform when you switch formats? How is it on a laptop? How is it on a tablet? How is it on a phone? Is that, we're gonna look at some of that stuff. Yeah. And I think some of that could be, we could roll it up into this talk about like accessibility, right?

Mm-hmm. And can, can people use your website? Some of that's user experience, some of that's user interface, but there's also just e accessibility. We had a whole podcast episode about Yeah. Accessibility. But can um. On a mobile device, can people read it? Can they, um, can they still navigate through the website cleanly and effectively?

Um, a lot of websites, rightfully so, are built in this like, responsive thing, right? Where they use the same design, but it adapts to the different screen sizes. And there's, I mean, I could pull up on a screen, like in, in some of the developer tools, it'll give you all these different options of the different devices and there could be like 30 different devices and that's really only scratching the surface mm-hmm.

Of the different dimensions you have to play with, right? So you want your website to be responsive to all those things and, um, not really treat any of those as a. Second or third classes and you want, mm-hmm. You want them to feel great. It make everything accessible on all of those different platforms.

Well, and that just, you know, again, emphasizes the point that 60%, if not more of the web is observed or reviewed on a web, on a phone. So yeah, that's where a lot of people, when we say mobile first, that's where people begin designing your website as if it were on the phone first, and then they expand it out from that point, which we try to do when it's, when it's appropriate.

We do ask people when we start, right? Like how, how do your viewers look at your website? And we do optimize the design of the website for that major audience, but we also consider all the other ones as well. We look at it. Holistically mm-hmm. At all of them. But that, yes, there are some things, like we do have some in the past that are in certain industries, they probably, most of their audience does work on a desktop machine.

Yeah. Right. And they've got a big screen. Right. And so the mobile affordances aren't as much of a priority. Mm-hmm. They're still there. I think another important consideration, like when you're talking about the mobile versus desktop thing, I, I think it's a lot easier and it forces some great decisions if you start at the mobile side of things, because you're not gonna have it, you, you're not gonna have less room than a mobile device.

Mm-hmm. To say what you need to say. Good point. It forces some efficiency in. The way you talk about what you're doing, some efficiency on the way you, um, design things, some the way you, um, the things you include, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you're ne you're never gonna have less than This helps you give you another lens to look through to be like, ruthless.

With editing, we're gonna look at today we're just gonna focus on homepage, right? We're just go, we're gonna go. We're not gonna go deep into, you know, we don't wanna bore everybody about go going page by page with all these things, but we're, we're prioritizing the gut reaction of somebody who's coming to the homepage.

So let's say I, um, you know, all three of these websites that maybe they had an interaction with a person, in person mm-hmm. Interaction, and they said, oh yeah, well we have more information on our website. Um, and they're like, okay, great. I'll go check that out afterwards. Or maybe they clicked on a link in their email signature or something like that, right?

Mm-hmm. We're taking the opinionated approach that people are coming in through the homepage. Gotcha. Which is not always the case. Right. True. Especially with search engines and stuff like that. You might end up on a, a deeper page that's, or a landing page or something specific to that effort or campaign.

Exactly. So, so that's, that's super important. Yeah. But, and we could talk about that another time, but I think really we're talking about the gut reaction of like, how you can improve your homepage. We could probably talk for four or five hours about all the different things that you might Yeah. Need to consider and all this stuff.

I'm kind of surprised anybody wants to get into the whole web business anymore. It's man like to do, to do like all the things. Right. If you're just one person. Yeah, that's, yeah. That's hard. Why don't we just do it? Why don't we just open up the first website and start, start going. Yeah. Let, let's do it.

Are we ready? I'm excited to do it. Let's do it. Love it. So. Remember gut reaction. We're looking at all this here. And so I want to give like a quick kinda top down, good thing to keep in mind is this kinda like FHA pattern that people look at websites at at and browse, right? They're gonna look across the top and then it might be more like a Z pattern, but you're gonna look left to right and then you just start making your way down, right?

And so you wanna make sure that you have things for your website that match that pattern, right? And the, the key things here, so almost every website you go to nowadays, they'll have their logo over here. That's good. Mm-hmm. We've got clear links here to main items. Um, one thing I really like about, about what they've done here on this website here is that they've got, they've prioritized things you'll notice like here under more, there's a whole bunch of other pages on the website, but they're really trying to, um.

I trying to focus the links at the top of the page here on things that are most important. Um, so that's good. Um, as we, as we look here though, the one thing that first feedback I have is I'm, I'm a little, uh, bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to, uh, videos playing in the background. Mm-hmm. Um, because, not because I, I don't like video.

I think I do, but this, especially this one, they're, you can tell based on the links across the top, like they're talk that it is a California rice is the, is the website. Right. But they're promoting wildlife and salmon here. Right? Like those are the, like there's a connection here. I might not immediately know that connection here.

Right. But the video does help show, hey. This is where rice is being grown and here's all the, um, here's all the wildlife. It's helping support. So that's good. It tells a story with the video that's really helps support the branding. So in that way it's really good. But video has its own, um, problems. I'll say problems.

This is the curmudgeon in me talking. Uh, one, um, video takes a long time to load. Like you can optimize it as much as possible. I think, I think this has probably been optimized. To the best it could be probably. Um, but especially if somebody has a poor internet connection, you're really slowing down everything if you've got a, a video there.

Right. Um, two, and this is more, this is kind of on the accessibility side of things. There's a lot of uncontrolled and unexpected motion happening here, and I'm not sure that I, there's a way to stop it. So from an accessibility standpoint, if you're gonna put a video on there, you, um, the a DA requirements, the.

Section 5 0 8 stuff requires that you have a way for people to pause. So they could turn, turn that off, or just pause it or, yeah. Okay. In this case, because of the noisiness, I don't wanna say no noisiness, it's beautiful flock of birds, but, um, when that one's going, like, you can kind of, I mean, right in here, do you know where my cursor is?

It's really hard to see, right? It's wiped by one of those birds. So there's a lot. Yeah. So no, not that one. That bird. Yeah, that bird. That bird. That bird. That bird. So, okay. The other thing I wanna be, uh, from a design perspective, I think we gotta keep in mind is this idea of, um, above the fold. And so the above the fold thing comes from like newspapers.

Mm-hmm. When they get delivered, they'd have, they'd be folded in half and yeah, your newspaper's super long. You'd have a whole bunch of information, but you would prioritize the most important information mm-hmm. On the top half. So it could be read, and that applies to the web as well. We wanna make sure, but the above the fold, the fold isn't a hard line.

Whereas like the newspaper, it's right in the middle. Right. Yeah, on the, on a webpage, it's, um, it can vary, but you wanna keep that range in mind and make sure that you have important information here. Um, mm-hmm. On here. And I think what's missing here on this site is that there's, there's nothing above the fold here that tells me.

Who's California Rice and, and really why, why am I seeing all these birds? Mm-hmm. And everything. So what what's interesting is that they're, and this is one of our clients, they've, they were nice enough to allow us to, to yeah. To pick apart their website or critique their website, I should say. Yes. Uh, but their, their main tagline, which doesn't even appear on this version of the logo, is the environmental crop.

Correct. So you would make that connection, even if that was the diff if we had that tagline in there somewhere. Yeah. And what you'll notice is if you start scrolling mm-hmm. It is there. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. There it is. But it's not, but it hasn't been moved up there. So like, I guess a small shift you could do here, and I would probably recommend is going back to that kind of Z shape, right?

Mm-hmm. We've got links across the top. If we go back over here as people are trying to find their way, if we could put that text over here. Yeah. Above the fold at least gives people a little bit more, um mm-hmm. More, um. Context. Exactly. The other thing I would do from a messaging perspective is, yeah, we know this is California rice and the environmental crop, but I think we could pay that forward a little bit more with some more succinct messaging.

Mm-hmm. So instead of, we already know it's California rice, 'cause we've got the logo up here, right? Mm-hmm. And if we've come to this website, we probably already know that California Rice is involved. So instead of just saying California rice again, and the environmental crop, I would probably start with something that says California Rice is the environmental crop.

And then have a supporting sentence that explains why they're in the environmental, what does that crop mean? Right? Like that they're, that they support all of this wildlife. The, the mm-hmm. Where Rice is Grown supports all of this, and we know because they're a client that they, they're a part of the Pacific Flyway, that there's so much wildlife that it's a, that they support, that it, it's, it's.

Almost bigger than their mission of growing rice. Mm-hmm. It's like, it's a symbiotic relationship, you know, between agriculture and the environment. So I, this, so I, those are a couple of tweaks I would make. Mm-hmm. Like, um, if, if there was a way to say that this is an environmental crop without using video.

This is, this is a kind of, the video does a really good job of showing that here. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it, it's hard for me to say there shouldn't be video, but maybe there's another way to do it that loads faster and is more mm-hmm. Accessible to people. Mm-hmm. So those are the tweaks I would make, like, above the fold here.

But then as we scroll down, we can see in here, we've got, um, beautiful photos. People, we are California's rice farmers and mills. We live and work in Sacramento Valley. This is, this is good. I think they're really trying to, um, I. Promote the people that are at the heart of rice farming. Mm-hmm. And, and everything.

So that's, that's good. That's effective. Has a clear button here to get the people to find out more about the people behind the Rice Commission. This is an interesting treatment because this almost explains, or captures what you were saying about the top of the fold stuff, was they almost need a little bit more of this in that top of fold.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then places, um, okay. Design wise, one thing that I'm seeing, and it's also a, um, it's an accessibility issue, is if we look at this line right here. Yeah. Yeah. It's really dark on a dark background and it's, it's quite hard to read actually. And this, even this white mm-hmm. On the, on there is, is not the clearest to read.

Um, another thing I would probably look at design wise is I would make sure that this typeface is, um. Like a minimum of 16 points. Mm-hmm. Like that's kind of like a industry standard now for, um, web text and that a lot of that goes back to accessibility. Interesting. Yeah. Standards and everything. I can see that for sure.

So it would, my guess is looking at this with my, my gut reaction is that this is probably smaller than that. That we could, we could make it bigger, but the real crime would be if they embedded all that text as an image or as part of the image. Oh boy. Then all bets are off. Right. Burn it down. Yeah. Yeah.

But they, they've done a good job of Yeah. Keeping it searchable. It plays into the SEO game. It is live content, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And it, yeah. And, and if you, and if somebody did need to use a screen reader to Yeah. To consume this, that it would be picked up by that. It would pick up by that. Okay. Good.

So. Wildlife, I mean, design-wise, the imagery they, they have on this site is like topnotch. Yeah. There's, as far as like storytelling goes with images, they, I don't know if it gets much better. Um, it's nice. It's, it's fantastic. Um, I do like that they started with the environmental crop stuff and they didn't go, um, I, I like a break from it.

Mm-hmm. Where they're talking about some of the other parts that support, um, that they're, they're key. Lemme take a step back here and just say that I think really what I'm reading we here is that these are the things that, that are important to the rice industry as a whole. It's the people, it's the places and the wildlife.

Yeah. And so I think they've, they've done that. I think there might've been, it would be at a sacrifice of the storytelling with the, the giant images and stuff like that. There might be a way to more concisely say that maybe even right here at the bottom of this, top of the fold section, so you can give people a hint about like, these are our key pillars, these are our key messaging pillars.

Okay. Yeah. Um, but, um, this is, this is good. This is effective. Um, linked to the blog. Again, just the imagery is just beautiful. So good. Um, I like this, um, a little bit like is if now there, there's this a, there's a double-edged sword, but I do like the idea of using images because the images are so strong and trying to get people.

An a glimpse of where they are. Mm-hmm. What they're doing on social media and everything, this social media block here. But if it's not very beautiful and engaging and really helping tell the story here mm-hmm. Like, this is one of these things that I don't, that I, the implementation matters so much. Just a couple other things.

Um, I really like that they've got basically the whole site map here down at the bottom. It makes it to where, yeah, if you're on any page, you can get directly to the next page that you're looking for. I think that's really good. There's a good, clear call to action here. Mm-hmm. Um, to contact. I, they're not.

They're not directly like selling rice, they're not directly, they don't have an overt call to call to action. So, um, whereas normally I would think that it would be important to have some big call to action up in the main navigation. What's this action that mm-hmm. You want people to say here the action is they want people to read, they want people to have an understanding of what the Rice Commission stands for and what they're trying to support.

And so it's not as direct, um, that because we are kind of intimately knowledgeable of the back end of this organization, let's identify who their audiences are, because I think that that would really help people understand Oh yeah. Because we know what the, we, yes. We were involved in the design of this website, so we outlined before we got into it.

So their audiences, obviously we've got. People who are interested in rice. So there could be just, how do I cook with it? I know that that's something that is something that's important for people to understand, but it's also a lot about industry and what transmitting the mission for what California Rice does to legislators, policy makers, and the agriculture industry as a whole.

Mm-hmm. So those are some of the audience members. Yeah. Uh, did I cover most of, I, I mean, really, uh, the, the, I think the overall goal with the website here is to kinda, like, you hear this a lot, change hearts and minds. Yep. And about, about the role of rice farming Yep. For the state of California and to, because we won't get too into it, but there's, there's a history there.

And then they've done a fantastic job of. Changing the narrative of Yes. And they've done that through these types of things. They don't, they don't have a direct call to action for the people that are coming here. They, they want, they just want people to leave this website having a better understanding of all of the benefits that rice farming brings to, to Northern California.

Great. Yeah. Okay. All right. One last little thing I like to do here is let's look at, um, I'm gonna move over and look at this on a mobile device. And so this is really important too. Um, and everybody can do this, right? This is not some special tool you're using. This is No. So this happens to be a little tool here in, um, Firefox I'm using, but if.

If you don't even want to get into the clickety clack of all that, just pull it up on your phone. Yeah, just like, I'm just doing this. It's really easy to record. We've already got it recorded. Um, so couple things that are really good here. We have a really, really clear navigation here, and we can get to everything.

I like that they have a search right up here so you can get right to it if you want to it. Mm-hmm. If you want to. So we have the whole site map here in one navigation. That's good. Let you go back up here. Um, that closes, um, it's not a video. You'll notice here Yep. That the video, um, is only loading on desktop, which is a good thing.

'cause there's an assumption there that people, if they're on a desktop machine, they're probably connected to a wifi or mm-hmm. Or broadband internet. They're not paying for the signal. Yeah. Like we would on a data. Yeah. Whereas this, this is gonna make sure that the mobile page, um, loads quicker. Mm-hmm. Um, it's above the fold.

We've got the messaging here, um, which is good. California rice, the environmental crop, again, we could probably nuance that a little bit. It does get a little hard to read. This is definitely too small. Mm-hmm. And even considering, um, that it's a, a script font, it makes it really hard to read. So yeah, I would bump that up.

Um, I like that here, instead of putting the, the text over the image like we did on the desktop. Yeah. We've got it clearly listed here, so that's good. It is pretty derivative of what's on the desktop, which is good. It doesn't feel like it's a completely different beast or anything. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, I think, I think this is effective.

One other thing I like to see is just scrolling side to side. Like is it, did it, does it actually adapting some, mm-hmm. Some of these responsive sites, they don't, they don't. Respond really well to the side to, they don't snap to the edges. Oh, it can. So they might be a little like overflow or something like that.

So when people are trying to scroll with their thumb, it might scroll sideways and stuff like that. They're too big or, or too small or something like that. Yeah. I think this does a really good job of that. So would you make, like, to me, like people down there and, and this is something that maybe I, I wish that we're connecting a little bit more to the photo.

Yeah. Because as you scroll, I see these big gaps that seem to be, and this is a design snob thing, so I Oh, it totally is. Like, you, like I'd reduce some of that a little bit just to kind of tighten it up so that the people part, the margin below people seems smaller than the margin above the word people to the actual photo of people.

So yeah, I would just tweak that maybe too. Yeah. Or I mean, honestly, maybe even in like, sacrifice a little bit of the bleed here and then wrap that in some kind of like box so it's a little bit more clear. That's, that's nice. Yeah. That it's delineated from the next one. Yeah. Okay. Good. We're, we're tearing for our own design.

I love it. Alright, I'm gonna jump back to the desktop and I'm gonna go to ano our next, well, well, well, here's another website. Look at this. Yeah. Alright. So, and like Eric said, before, we picked people that were friendly. We didn't want to just pick on stranger's websites. We, we did, we asked for people's help on all this stuff.

And, um, our, our friends at River City Food Bank, you could look at, um, actually go back to our episode with Erica, um, who talked about nonprofit marketing. Um, she, I asked her if she mind if we roast and toast the website a little bit. And so, um, nice. Here we go. Um, so, okay. This is, this is fun. Um, I haven't looked at the website recently.

This website recently. So let, let's just kind of take a quick, um, ra of things. Um, first it might be a little unfair that I'm looking at this on a desktop first. 'cause I, I would assume though that this is one of these cases where most people coming to it mm mm-hmm. Are mobile device first. Right? But what's good about that is you can kinda see some hints of that in the, in the design of this thing, that it does look like it's being designed to be responsive to a bunch of different sizes.

When you look at the main navigation, um. Navigation wise, I mean, what if we're talking about limited size when we're talking about a design thing, there is a lot of open white space here. Mm-hmm. We'll take a look and see when, when we get to looking at a mobile device, like are we making the best use of time?

Like white space is good, but sometimes it also can be like, are we using what we have available to us best, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I love the organization of, um, of the navigation. I think that, I think it's absolutely perfect, right? They've got get help. If you're somebody who's experiencing hunger like you have, that's the first thing.

I think that's. Amazing. Mm-hmm. Like, like you've, they've designed it around the needs of the people that be coming to the website. If you've got somebody who really is worried about, um, not worried, wrong word. If you're somebody who wants to help, wants to help and help and help battle food insecurity, we've got a thing here.

Places where they can, what they can give, where they can volunteer their time, donate food. This is fantastic. And then some more in information back here about like who they are and who they serve. So the navigation like structure and the naming and everything. This is just perfect because it really give, lets everybody let to that user experience side of things lets everybody know.

Where they can go to get the information they need. Question about that. Is there a minimum or a maximum of amount of elements you would want on the main navigation? I mean, it seems like for those that have more than five or six elements, they usually then have like a super menu or some sort of a mega menu that then goes deeper if they need to, or they put it on the, like the site map on the bottom.

Yep. This to me, seems like we've got six or 7, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Yep. Um, I wonder if that's getting out there as far as maybe too many. So the, there's a, um, I think there's a number of reasons why you see that divide or you see the, the, mm-hmm. And I'm gonna answer your question here shortly. I like, yes. I think this might be a little more, and the reason, the reason why is to fit on certain.

Screens. Mm-hmm. Especially with this horizontal navigation, when you talk about like responding to different sizes and stuff, you're gonna run outta room. Mm-hmm. Another reason why is the size of type that you can fit in here. Right? Remember when I was talking about like the, the 16 point or something like that?

This looks like it might be smaller and mm-hmm. So, um. So I would wanna beef that up. Well, when you beef up the size, that means it's gonna take up more room, which means you start squeezing out other things. If it were me and going back to the idea of like using, having effective use of white space and everything.

Mm-hmm. I would do a few things to clean up the navigation. One, I would remove the home button. Uh, it's pretty, almost everybody in it's supported where if you click on the homepage Yeah. They've even got it that way here. Yep. If you click on the logo, it goes back to the homepage. So that's an easy win we can get rid of that.

I would not get rid of, get help. No. Get involved who we serve and events out of the main navigation. Um, I would. Take this. And this is, goes back to one of the things that I, I, I would have a very clear and very prominent like, call to action. Yeah. This is the call to action they really want to have moving, right?

Yeah. So I would make, I would pull that out and have it over here again. Go into that kind of Z pattern. I would put that way over here. Make it big. Make it bold. Yeah. Make, give people, make it clear that this is where they can go to donate. I think these are taking up valuable real estate navigation too.

These social links and stuff. I would probably keep them about the same size, but I would move them up into, kind of, into this area up here. Make them an afterthought. Yes, though, like really what we wanna make sure is that our main navigation links, the ones I talked about here, are clear and you can get right to 'em.

So, uh, when we go back to like thinking about like your key audiences and who they're, what, um, what actions they're trying to. Um, complete. Like, I don't, some people will, I'm, I'll acknowledge that some people are gonna go to a website to find out more about that. Mm-hmm. Company, right? Mm-hmm. But most of 'em are, right?

Like most of the people have more specific needs. They're, they need help. Or they want to help. Yep. Right. So I would prioritize all of these. Like I would de-emphasize this a little bit. Okay. I would either put it down at the bottom of the, the footer for, for everybody to use or something. Um, but I could see a case for maybe, um, some, a lot of sites now there's kind of this idea of like a primary navigation and like a secondary navigation.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I would put that into more of like a secondary navigation. It could still be up in the top. Maybe up here again. Mm-hmm. Or something like that. But, um, that so people can still get to it, but, you know, that would be, it's Yeah. 'cause about us is, it's interesting to see the different ways people use that about us Yeah.

And how important it is depending, and it changes from organization to organization how much emphasis there is on that. Yeah. Because like sometimes you really wanna know like, are these professionals doing this? And in this case, I think the mission outer is maybe more has my priority over the about us than it does.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So those were, I mean that the, I overall the navigation's really good. Um, all right. I wanna get into a hot button topic here. Oh, right. Let's do it. My opinion needed to take roast and toast. Um, okay. This, this slide is really good. Mm-hmm. Really good because no one should be hungry.

Right. Um, I think this is really good. Um, one, it's on brand. It. I know that, that this is their mission statement. I know that like the typefaces they've used are really good. They've got, it's, um, showing people it's humanizing it. Mm-hmm. Um, typeface is the same as as this. Right. Yeah. Um, this is really good.

What I don't like is that we've got another thing here that keeps sliding without my control. Mm-hmm. And everything. I think that, well, one, people, people typically do these sliders because they, it's a, um, it's difficulty prioritizing one message over the other. Mm-hmm. This one's pretty clean as far as things go.

I've seen way worse. Um, I think a compelling header thing here could do both, both things. 'cause what they're trying to do here is talk about their mission. And get more people on board mm-hmm. And get more donations. Right. So that's, that's why there's two, it's like there's this push and pull. We wanna say both things, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But from an accessibility standpoint, sliders aren't great, especially when they auto slide. Mm-hmm. Like, you would want to have like a way to pause and forward and back and everything. It's good that these pause when you hover over them. So that's, that's a good thing. Mm-hmm. But I think, I don't think that a slider's needed here at all.

Like, I think there that you could lead with this, maybe make this a little bit smaller. Yep. Um, because no one el, no one should be, should go hungry. You can have, uh, maybe elaborate with a smaller bit of text here to talk about how River City Food Bank helps fulfill that mission. Mm-hmm. And then you can call people into that mission.

You could say, get help. Have a call to action for the people who are looking to get help. If you are one of the people who, who is hungry and wants to figure out, find out more about how they could get help, but you can also. That this message is not exclusive. Right. It's, it's welcoming to everybody. So having a button there that says donate now mm-hmm.

Helps solve both of these things. Connects both. Yeah. And it makes this a little redundant. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that would, that would make it more effective. And again, it's that gut reaction. Right. One other thing I wanted to talk about is, and I know why this happens, but, um, when we talk about like brand consistency and stuff like that, this is def this is one of those things that this, um, this typeface, um, here, and I know I've already kind of poo-pooed this slide here, but I do wanna point out that like this typeface here, um, seems to be different than what we're using here.

And especially on the slide before. Right. So like, ideally we're able to use the same typeface, especially in that main mm-hmm. The, the main headings for everything. It, for that consistency, it's, it might be a designer snob type thing, but I think it's a, it's one of these things people don't. Don't know they notice, but it kind of sits underneath Simers underneath it as a design snob.

No, but I'm saying people who aren't design snobs, it might be something that just kind of chips away. Gotcha. Uh, it gives a, yeah. Maybe an uneasy feeling. It doesn't look like it's disconnected a little bit from the rest of the site based on that typeface. Now I know I'm hyper aware of that, but I don't think that it's really close to that type face.

So it does, yeah. Does kind of throw me a little bit. Yeah. And it starts to get there with these three buttons down there too. Yep. Yeah. But so. Structurally, structurally having this big mission statement here, calling people into the mission mm-hmm. Is super this perfect. That's great. Um, following up by showing like three paths for the different people mm-hmm.

That the different needs for people. This is really, really strong as far as the structure goes. Um, design wise, you know, this typeface could probably be bigger and a little bit easier to read. Maybe not as close to the edges on everything. Thank you. Yes. But, and then this kind of drop shadow thing inside here, um, that those are design snobby things to, but as far as like helping people get from A to B and everything.

Mm-hmm. This is, I think this is really effective. So you're saying not from a design perspective, but a user experience perspective. This is right on, right on. Yeah. It's just the design needs to be cleaned up a little bit to make it more consistent and brown brand. Just kind of clean it. Yeah. Clean it up for the brand's sake and, yeah.

Yeah. Good brand identity's sake. This is really good too. Um, in the, the meet your neighbors, like the, like, um, they do have a, a very nice, uh, I happen to know that they do this really interesting, um, thing where they're, um, interviewing people in the line Yeah. For as they're waiting to get into the food bank.

Really troubling concept. Um, it's really good. I think we could probably amplify this part a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And get, and get people. I like the idea of it. I think there's just a little bit more on the execution side of things that we could do to make that more effective. Like, meet your neighbors.

I don't think that's going, that it's gonna get any better than that for a headline for this section. Well, and it almo and looking at the whole Are you, is the footer down there? Is that the next last I think we're getting to the footer. Yeah. Okay. So this, this is like, this is, serves so many things, right?

Mm-hmm. Like. I think it's, it's fantastic because it's letting people know that, hey, like, um, food insecurity isn't something that's just like mm-hmm. That's, oh, all those people over there. It's the people that are in your neighborhoods and, and deeply embedded. So like, it's, it's calling people who might not be aware of the problem.

Like maybe it's the people who are trying to, um, about volunteering or donating. Mm-hmm. It's helping stand up those, you know, that those pillars. Right. But it's also giving people license who might be a little apprehensive about going to get help. Mm-hmm. Like showing, Hey, we have neighbors here, come meet them.

Learn more about it. Like, know that you're not alone. Um, nothing more compelling than video to tell that and get people comfortable with Oh, I, I recognize that building. I recognize, oh, there's all these people online, just like on the video and Yep. Yep. So what I would do here is I think giving a little bit of a tease as to like, who is this person?

Mm-hmm. Um, maybe like highlighting, um, her story. Mm-hmm. A little bit if they can in with a little bit of text here. Um, and then say, hear her story here. Nice. Um, would, would kinda sell this a little bit more. Just get closer to that. Yeah. Yeah. Intimate story there. Yeah. And the other thing we could do maybe in, instead of just isolating one, um, is to maybe, maybe there's three of 'em.

Yeah. Yeah. Or, and we could do that in number of different ways. Maybe there's a, maybe there's there, maybe there's three of them in a line. Maybe we have one. And then you can click on a button to reveal more of them. Mm-hmm. Something like that. Mm-hmm. But I think, I think that would be really effective in telling, um, if it's really helping fulfill all of these pillars, um, of, of what they, how they're delivering service and how they get help delivering those services.

Can I make a general statement then, based on what we've just scroll, scrolled through on this page? To me, I think that there are things that are optimized really well for this. Yeah. But I think we could take it even one step further or two steps further and combine a lot of these things to where that header message combines some of these elements in there.

All of mm-hmm. In there. Like we've already kind of outlined like get help or give help. Yep. Kind of two options in the header. Yep. Which would then kind of remove that middle band and then just go right into, here's three neighbors, meet your neighbors. You know? And so we would even optimize this even more so that, 'cause the message is pretty clear.

They're helping people and they need help. Yeah. And so those are the two levers that they're really pulling on here. And they could almost optimize that even further by just focusing on those two things. I think they could. They could be more. Um, so this feels, um, from a, like, you'll notice I'm, I'm, I think a lot of structurally and what they're trying to do here is all very good.

Mm-hmm. And so, like it's, I'm not going to, it feels like we've got a very good utilitarian Yes. Version of a homepage. Right. Definitely. But I know that with nonprofit websites and everything like that, I think if I was gonna add anything to this Mm, I would, um, build up a case for. Um, for how big the problem is and how, how they're fighting Nice.

What they're doing to fight that problem. Educate a little bit more. There's a, there's an education point of view, right? Yeah. Good. Like, and I, I happen to know that, um, they have good, um, impact stats. They can talk about, um, how many people are food insecure in the area. Mm-hmm. They can talk about how many meals they've served.

They can, they can weave that narrative into this homepage to really help, help. Infographic. Infographic is a nice way to, or like, um, there's some sites, um, especially in the, um. In the nonprofit world where they're, where they'll, they'll use statistics or something like that. Like you'll see 'em like three across on or four across.

They'll say like, this, this, this, and this. Um, it doesn't have to take up a lot of room, but it helps sell that. Mm-hmm. Um, the problem, it's a little bit more data proof or Data Yeah. Evidence and yeah. It's like, here's the problem. Here's how big the problem is. Here's what, how we are, here's what we're doing every day to, to help solve that.

Love it. Um, I think it would help sell the, the, um, especially for donations and everything. Yeah. Like Yeah, for sure. And other things here, like I think the messaging here, like every $2 donated equals a healthy meal for a family facing hunger. Amplify that, boom. More. I think there we could, there could be some room to play with, um, other, some of those key messages.

Mm-hmm. On the homepage here. Um. But I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of really good stuff going on here. Yeah. So Erica warned me that, that I, that I should go easy on 'em when it comes to mobile, but I'm gonna jump over here a little bit. So, um, load speed. Yep. Just saying. Yep. So this is a key thing.

They've done a good job. They have a separate image here for mobile. Yeah. So that this, which is good because this text doesn't get super, super small. Yep. Um, I think if that could be optimized so it loads faster, that would be really good. Um, I would, I think I would design wise, keeping in mind that we've got this like, fixed size here.

I would try, and this is, this takes some nuance and everything. I think the message, the headline message is really good. Like we talked about, I would carry over the messaging and buttons from that. Mm-hmm. And I would try and figure out how to capture that and the picture. All in this area above the fold.

And I think that would be be successful thing. And on the phone the fold is much lower. 'cause it's, it's lower, it's a vertical screen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you have a little bit more room vertically to help. Mm-hmm. Um, again, we carry this over a lot of the same feedback from before. Mm-hmm. Um, would be, would be the same.

The last thing I would look at is just like the menu here. Very clean. Mm-hmm. Very easy to get to everything. So I think that's really effective. Um, yeah. I mean, my main tweak I would make on the mobile would be to, to just make that, uh, dead simple explaining and giving people clear calls to action. Right here.

Right in this area. Right here. Yep. Um, get people right to it. But yeah. Great photos. That's huge. Yep. For, for websites. It does such a great job at storytelling and getting people engaged immediately. Absolutely. All. Let's go a completely different direction. Okay. Or not. Um, we're gonna go to another river bank.

Oh. But literally, literally. So it's a river theme for all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. We're in Sacramento. Rivers rule everything we do evidently. So it's a river. We're a river town, yes. Alright, now let's get into River Valley Community Bank here. Yeah. So, um, alright. So one thing that I think they've really looking at this, one thing they've optimized for is existing customers.

Mm-hmm. Right. The, the clear call to action I see is, I'm doing that f pattern, is online banking login. They're making it super easy. Mm-hmm. Assuming that most people don't bookmark the actual online banking portal and everything, they have it right there. They also. Um, have this like, Hey, are they not a part of it?

They, they thematically fit together. Mm-hmm. I think that's really good. Yeah. Um, they have a very, very simple main navigation here where they've got business and personal and about us, like simple. Yeah. Business banking, personal banking, stuff about them. Um, I think that's really good. Um, design-wise, you'll notice like there's some weirdness about like the hover things disappearing and this active tab thing.

Mm-hmm. I think that's more of a technical implementation detail. Um, so yeah. I mean that would, that's a small tweak I'd make, but it's clear, it's clean. They've prioritized the three main mm-hmm. Places to go. Um, which is really good. As I get into this, we've also got this like sub navigation here. It's not immediately clear that.

I know we have this active tab here, but it almost feels like you've, when you're on the homepage, you've kind of jumped already into a subpage. Mm-hmm. Like you're in the business banking thing. So a lot of this stuff, it does feel that way. Right? You've got your business banking information here on the left.

Um, I'm ignoring this big moving thing, and I'll talk about that in a second. Um, and then we've got the business accounts, business services, business loans. I, I think that's a strategic decision. This, this bank, you know, is a business bank. They, that's, yeah. That's what they do, right? Yeah. So that, that makes sense.

But, um, it's, I think maybe taking advantage of, I would probably tweak the. Um, main navigation to be a little bit more, um, to delineate maybe direct connections to some of these sub things. Um, so you would still include the sub things on there, maybe just kind of refine it a little bit more. They are very business forward with this, assuming that personal is almost secondary to the Yeah.

Experience. Yeah. I think what they're the, they've got a very clear case of like, if you're coming, if you're already a customer mm-hmm. Let's think about that through that lens. If you're already a customer and you're coming to the website mm-hmm. That you, there's certain things you're gonna want. Right.

The, the thing that I'm not seeing here is, and kind of going back to the restaurant example, right? The restaurant, if you're a restaurant website, you're coming in 'cause you're looking for reservations, um, where you are and, um, and menu, right? Mm-hmm. So here, there, there's, there's not a lot here for the people who are already customers.

The things that I think are missing, um, would be, um, customer support or customer service. Mm-hmm. Like a way to call them, um, the, those types of things. I would want that here in this main navigation somewhere. Yeah. The phone number usually on a bank is right up near the top on a lot of the bank websites I've seen.

Yeah. Let's talk about the slider here. I think I mentioned earlier, I'm not a huge fan of sliders. Uh, there, there's a few things here and I want to actually focus on this one. Yeah. Um, I. This is really important information, and I know it's like this. I think this is one of those cases where if you have a website that's not like flexible to your, to your needs as a web content creator and publisher and everything that you, if you don't have a better way to do it, you just, this is what ends up happening, right?

Mm-hmm. But so here we've got this really important alert that like, they're like, people are scamming their customers Yeah. Here and there's a lot of text in here and, um, it's small. Yep. Um, when we get to mobile, I'm assuming that's gonna be almost too small to read mm-hmm. Because it's gonna shrink down the entire thing.

Right. So, um. Adapting this section? I would, I would change out this section a little bit, um, for a, for a number of reasons. But this is a, this one's a challenge because you've got, there's accessibility issues, there's, uh, readability issues, especially in mobile mm-hmm. Where I assume a lot of people are doing their banking, uh, for coming to a bank website, it's gonna be a lot more mobile focused.

Right. So this isn't, this is not optimized for a mobile thing. Right. Is that even selectable text or is it an image? No, it's, it's an image. So yeah. Again, it's not even like searchable or ca there's nobody cataloging it. Yeah. Not that this is critical, but that is something to consider. Yeah. And if somebody has a, um, has a, um.

You know, the visibility problems read reader. Yeah. A screen reader is not gonna read this. Especially an alert. Yeah. Yeah. Like, don't get scammed. Yeah. But I, I know, I know from behind the scenes that there's, that this, this website is kinda locked down in a way that it's very hard to get this type of information out.

Ah, in a text way. Okay. They've tried to do it here, and you'll see over here cell phone, text, spam and scams. Mm-hmm. That's here. But thematically it's also along with, um, events they're at. Uh, frequently asked questions. I think there's a like organization thing here where it's, it's like you don't know exactly what to expect in this thing.

Yeah. Okay. And so, um, that's one thing that, that could be cleaned up. Sorry, let me go back to this thing. One thing they do have, which is good from an accessibility standpoint with these kind of like auto playing sliders, is that there's, um, you can control it mm-hmm. Here at the bottom. Mm-hmm. You can pause it, you can play it, have it play if you want.

So having those accessibility controls in here is really good. Um, I, I do like some of the, um, some of the messaging here. Mm-hmm. Because they're, they're community bank. They want to talk about how great they are at, at serving the needs of their communities. Sure. And so some of these sliders are helping, helping, um.

Fulfill that. But the thing that I'm missing, the thing that's missing in this, all of this above the gr above, yeah. The fold thing is, is some like clear messaging about like who they are and what they stand for and how, and more importantly, how they can help their audience. Mm-hmm. They're, they're making a, there's a lot of assumptions here.

Um, they're putting a lot of weight on the tagline to do that. Yes, yes. I think that's the only space over there, other than some of the fun activity, the more ephemeral stuff down in that slider. Um, it's hard. Yeah. You, you need a lot more support for that messaging, I think. Yeah. And I think, uh, one thing, especially in, in certain industries, well actually even, you know, with the Rice Commission, they've, I.

They don't have a lot of competition. There's not a lot of other Sure. Commissions in California that you stand up, stand apart from. Right. Right. But with like banks and, and everything, there's so many, by and large, the products and everything that they're mm-hmm. Offering are very similar to every other bank.

Right. Yeah. Your homepage is your best, probably your best exam, best place to set up your differentiation and why, why should somebody choose your bank over somebody else? Mm-hmm. So I think this is a, this is the opportunity to go big with that. And that's one thing that I would suggest is kind of revamping this, this main hero section here.

Mm-hmm. To clearly delineate, um, who they are, who they're for, and how they can really help them. Yep. For sure. Um. As we scroll down a little bit more, we've got, we can see direct links to their services typeface. Um, we would definitely wanna bump that up. That's, that looks pretty small. Um, there's a lot of different type sizes on that.

There's a lot of different, there's a lot of different typefaces, I feel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, um, we, that's something that we would want to, um, look at. I think it's good that they're getting people directly to you, their product lines and everything. Mm-hmm. That's, that's a really good thing. Um, and then, um, mobile banking, it's super important.

Um. I would probably amplify that a little bit more with some of the messaging here. Like, like make it very clear like mobile banking or MO or mobile app or something like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and that, and especially for this thing because it is something that's like, it's available for iPhone or Android or something like that, maybe to help people understand it a little quicker.

There's always those like download on the app store button type things or something like that I would include immediately. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like just the gut reaction stuff again. Yeah. Um. Let's see, getting down here. They've got a good, I think they've done a really good job of getting the main site map Informa links to all the important pages.

Um, other information, just, just to kind of lean into that a little bit more. This is a really critical piece to most websites for SEO uh, purposes. Correct. I mean, there needs to be a direct route for the machines and robots that catalog the web. They love to see this kind of stuff. It, it helps from that perspective for sure.

Um, there is another, technically there's a thing behind the scenes called a site map dot xml that should, you should have in place by, you need that. Just the backend thing. Yeah. Okay. That's, a lot of robots will use that to crawl. Okay. But then there's others that will use the, to use the website itself, this a lot.

I think the idea here is that if you've went through all this stuff. Scrolling through entire page of mm-hmm. Whatever you've decided to do. You don't wanna leave people empty handed. Mm-hmm. So, by putting it this way, you can give people very quick access to find what they're looking for and where they're trying to go to accomplish their, their task at hand.

Yep. Especially if you haven't helped them out up here. That makes sense. Yeah. So, and it can be repeated links. Yeah. It's like, you there, it's fine if it's like that. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And I, I mean, I, there's a lot of times I've, I'll go to a website and if I don't see it very quickly mm-hmm. I'm gonna jump right to the, to the, the bottom here.

Mm-hmm. Lastly, it is good they have direct phone numbers to each one of their branches here. Yeah. I think that's really important. I just, I'd love to see a more direct, like phone number link or a way to get people up here on the header. Mm-hmm. Layout wise, I just think there's a lot to be kind of desired here, I think.

Mm-hmm. The, well, I. Um, the logo might be a little big. I, I would almost make it a little bit smaller and be able to move the menu thing up here a little bit. Mm-hmm. And free. That would create a lot more space to get more important stuff into that above the fold section. I think having a clear button for online banking is super important.

I think that's really good. Yeah. Um, I already talked about the kind of text sizes, especially on these images. Let's wait for here. Yeah. Like, oh yeah, no one's. Yeah. It's gonna be really, really hard to read on a mobile device here. So that's having some way, and for them, I think having a way to have some kinda like urgent.

News or mm-hmm. Something that's in plain text that's responsive to it would be a, a key. I could see almost like another red band. I know that there's a red band in the nav up top, but having like a red band Yeah. Would do that better. Yeah. I think, yeah. Having a, a feed and everything. Yeah. Like a live feed.

It's just text, you know? And mobile wise, a lot of the stuff that we talked about on the desktop applies the, I think there's a lot of kind of wasted space here mm-hmm. Where the type size could be bigger and would be better served for people, easier to poke with. Oh yeah. And especially, that's one thing I didn't talk about is the space between links.

Um, you wanna make sure, think about it, it's people's thumbs that are trying to tap this thing. Mm-hmm. People's thumbs are not as precise as a stylus or something like that. Or a mouse click with a me cursor. Right. Yeah. Okay. So now in here, this one is definitely, this whole module really wasn't. Mm-hmm. It feels kinda like a.

Afterthought for mobile and Yeah. And stuff like that. So there, there would be a better way. I mean, typical it might be to have this be full width up here and then let the text go down below. Yeah. You know, um, again, type size is pretty small, so we would wanna beef that up. And one thing I'm seeing here, which is interesting, is if we look at the menu here, I almost expect it to only have business and personal and about us that that's on the existing one.

Um, this is interesting that, that it's kind of, do you see how that was kind of broken? Yeah. Um, wow. Look at that. So a lot of white space there. I like the white space because the responsive nature thing and the way that the things were, um, the main navigation, that side navigation were separated. That means that you've got these links here.

I don't know in this case, it's a horrible thing, but. Um, it just feels a little outta place. It seems like the order of things, the way from my interpretation of how they design the experience on the homepage, that sidebar element that's in the light blue if you scroll up a little bit, seems like that should be up above all the different services.

Like just in general. It should be below that, um, slider thing. Yeah. In a sense, because that to me seemed like I'm gonna go in that f pattern, I'm gonna go across the top and then go down the side. Mm-hmm. That's the next thing on the side that I would want to go to. Then they do the services as where this on the mobile puts those services up.

Mm-hmm. And those individual, I guess, more important links are down even more further down below. Yeah. So this needs to be re-engineering for sure. I would imagine. Yeah. There's a lot of different kind of pieces that could be used to, to, and prioritized and everything. Um. Yeah. And then the, the feed here again, really it's just like some of the same issues that are on desktop would pull over to mobile.

Mm-hmm. The one thing I do like about the footer here is that how they have, um, gone two column here. I do like that too, to get people to, I would probably add a little bit more space maybe. Maybe the problem is I don't know how much bigger they can make the type and still have this two column thing, but, um, if they could beef that up and add a little bit more space into here, um, that would help, um, for sure.

Help with the clickability and everything. Yeah. Um, the back to tops a good thing, especially if you get these pages that are super long, super long. Yeah. Yeah. Give you immediate access to the top there. Interesting. All right, well that was really insightful. It gives us a really good picture into the way we kind of start looking at websites and how we start talking with clients when they come to us for a website refinement.

I think there's also the, I. Um, the platform thing and we, I think we have a whole episode. Yeah. Talking about that too. Um, that there's platform considerations there and being hamstrung into Yeah. Certain things. Right. And there's in platforms, part of it, part of it's just, uh, attention on it. Mm-hmm. Right?

Mm-hmm. A budget. Um, there's all these things that come into play there, but yeah. Um, I wouldn't, um, I think if you, if you had a flexible and scalable platform from the beginning mm-hmm. You can adapt it over time to where that three to five years is kind of goes away because you're working on it all the time.

Yeah. I think that's a more healthy way to look at owning a website and maintaining a website. But the reality is, yeah, if you're not doing that regular stuff, yeah. Don't let it go more than three to five years to at least check in and make sure that it's still meeting all your needs. I did want to kind of announce a new thing that we're trying out here.

Oh. And um, so if people thought this was. Helpful and wanted that kind of second set of eyes on things. Um, we're, we're gonna be launching a new service called Roast and Toast, my website. So looking at SEO. Accessibility performance, so like the speed and loading time of your website, and we bundle that all that up in a report and deliver it to you so you get that kind of outsider outside opinion about how things are going.

If you're in the process of maybe making a case to a leadership that, Hey, we should be working on our website, and, and maybe they're not listening, maybe this is just another tool that you can use to kind of v validate that, that argument for improving your website, you know? Yeah. Mike, uh, appreciate everything that you've, uh, shown us today, all of the insights and everything.

Again, if you like what you've seen here on the podcast, please give us a like, and, uh, subscribe. We appreciate all that effort on your end. How's that sound, Mike? Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Love it. Do that. He's a wise man. Do all those things he said and do all those things. He said. Thank you, Mike. Yeah, yeah.

Thanks Eric. Bye bye.

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