Managing Sales Teams with Lidia Zaragoza

I wanna make sure that they know the door is open. Um, if they see me at a conference, I want them to say, oh my God, this, this woman's a goofball. I can totally come by and say hi. Right. Yeah. Where I've, you know, met other VPs that are so rigid, it's intimidating, right. To talk to leadership. Um, and so I want people to see that, uh, yeah.

It's come by, say hi, you know, you're humanizing yourself. Yeah.

Welcome to the marketing team at one podcast where we have conversations about the issues one person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Today we're lucky enough to have with us Ms. Lidia Zaragoza. Yes. Is that how I say it? Yes. Thank you. Um, she is a. Marketing team of one.

So she's gonna be here to tell us a little bit about what she does. Um, I've met her through the American Marketing Association. Mm-hmm. And, uh, thought she'd be an awesome guest 'cause she deals with things that we're not really familiar with. So I'm really anxious and interested in learning more about what.

She does. So welcome to the show. Yes, thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Yeah, that's great. Thanks for joining us. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself. What, what's your, give us a little backstory of where you came from and then let's talk about what you're doing now. Yeah, so I work in multifamily.

I started in the industry back in the day. I'm gonna date myself here. When you would print out a resume and go to buildings. Wow. And hand them out to people. So that's how I got my foot in the door in multifamily. Um, I can, let's break down what multifamily means. That's a good place to maybe. Yeah.

Multifamily is part of the real estate bracket, right? Okay. So when somebody that is not in the industry asks me, what's your industry? I say, I work in real estate. Okay. But I don't sell homes. We work in the apartment management aspect of things. Okay? Uh. You know the buildings that house multifamily big, high rises potentially.

And yeah, multifamily can be anything. You know, 50 units, 20 units. Mm-hmm. Um, but my expertise has been with the Class B, class A assets, which are usually on the higher end. Okay. Luxury market. Interesting. Wow. That's gotta be interesting audience to market too. Yes. Now are you on the front end of marketing to getting people to come in and live in those or are you B2B more or what, how would, in my existing role on B2B Okay.

How I got into the industry. Like I was saying, I, you know, went and I was searching for a job when, think I was 20. So I've been in the industry for a really long time and I was really lucky to land, like in the luxury market. Hmm. Uh, and I made my way from leasing agent to managing these buildings, to managing a region, uh, moving up to the corporate level.

And, uh, I made the switch into, into marketing and, uh, I think that it positions me. Better than a lot of people in my same industry because I have so much, um, hands-on experience mm-hmm. With the industry that I'm able to tailor the messaging to a way that it resonates to the decision makers. So currently we target, um, marketing managers for the property management companies.

Okay. We target anybody that's director and above, um, they're the decision makers for our software. So let's ly so let's, yeah, let's break that down. You for your software? Correct. So the, the name, that name your company, it's lively. Yes. And lively. Give us the elevator pitch on what a lively does, so we understand.

Yeah. Lively. We are an enterprise solution for multifamily property management. Okay. We take, uh, tech, our technology centralizes, uh, all of the software, other software companies that, uh, property management's need. Mm-hmm. And we leverage AI as well. Our end user are the onsite teams though. Mm-hmm. So I think that's also where my experience, um, is very unique because I was onsite for a really long time as well.

Um, and so our end user are the onsite teams, but the decision makers who need the software, need to manage it at a portfolio level are those corporate people. So there's multiple messaging that has to go in tandem mm-hmm. For people to understand what we do. Okay. And, uh, we basically streamline all the operations that a community.

Um, or operator needs. Uh, so we can, it drills it down to the property level so that the teams on site, um, have streamlined workflows. Okay. But then also at the corporate level, there's different views for them where they can manage things at the portfolio level. Mm-hmm. Um, and again, we've heavily use like generative ai and there's a lot of stuff in the backend, um, to, to help with all that.

Interesting. So the market is your b2b, we're b2b, you're, you're selling solutions for large, I would say property managers in a sense is that we call thems property owners. Operators. Okay. Sorry. Um, the lingo, the jargon here. The jargon. I know, yes. I try. It's hard to cut through the jargon sometimes. So that's one of my roles is to be very ignorant.

In what people do and then ask a lot of kind of dumb questions. But it does help to kind of clarify exactly what people do. But So a lot of software? It's all software. Yes. That's the whole thing. So you've got a big team. How big is Lively? Is it a bigger, uh, I wouldn't say we're necessarily big. We're still considered, um, at the tail end of a startup.

Okay. So we are, and it's also hard to say how many people Exactly. Because we're all remote. Wow. So, uh, I would say we're upwards of 50 employees. Okay. And then we also have, um, you know, contract, uh, people that we contract with to, to support. Um, but we're still, like I said, on the tail end of a startup.

Interesting. How long has Lively been around then? We have been around since 2017. Oh, that's still pretty new then. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Very exciting. And where's lively based? Was there headquarters? You said everybody's remote, so that's Yes. Irrelevant. I guess We are, uh, remote. Uh, the company was founded in Chicago.

Okay. Uh, and I do believe early on there was a corporate office where everybody reported to. Mm-hmm. So I would say most of our employees are located in the Chicago area, and then the newer employees are kind of sprinkled throughout the states. And the company's made up. I'm sure there's a whole development team that builds the actual platform or software platform that, that is the, the product itself.

Right. And then of course, admin administration. But then is there a large, uh, I would imagine there's sales that need to go. Yes. And that's something you have to handshake a lot with sales teams. I'm thinking. Yes, we do have a sales team and then we also have customer support, which also acts in a way, um, as a sales team, right.

They're involved in, in a way to, uh, either upsell or prevent, uh, contracts from closing mm-hmm. Or sourcing new expansion opportunities. Mm-hmm. Um, so they also need separate messaging and separate assets than the sales team. Wow. So I would say to the people that I interact with that are in a sales capacity on a day-to-day basis is a.

Approximately like seven people that I directly speak to. And then obviously they have people that they, they speak to, so mm-hmm. And they're mostly in sales or customer service? Sales or customer support. Interesting. Mm-hmm. Okay. Wow. That's a lot bigger, I think, than, uh, maybe a lot of our audience maybe who's working for companies that are maybe 10, 12, 15 people.

So that's, it's kind of gonna be interesting to learn more about what it's like to kind of work with those bigger teams, bigger sales. 'cause maybe there's. Potentially people don't have a sales team. Maybe they are marketing and sales, uh, some of our audience members. So did you, did you go to school? Was your background in marketing?

My background, uh, like I said, was in multi-family operations. That's where I started. Okay. That's essentially where I have all of my experience. I haven't really deviated from the industry. Uh, my undergrad work was in anthropology at uc, Santa Cruz, and I think that that gave me the advantage to kind of help with the human behavior aspect of things.

Mm-hmm. And the messaging and what resonates. Um, but I started marketing apartment communities when I was at a company managing a region from Fresno to Sacramento. Mm-hmm. And it was a smaller company also. Um, I don't even think we had a marketer at the time. So I was the one that had to do the websites.

I, I was the one that had to do to market to. The residents to rent those apartments. Interesting. So there it was, um, directly to consumer. You were a marketing team of one? Yes. At that point, yes. As well. As long as well as a regional manager. And sales. And sales, yeah. Everything sing I dance, I do it. All right.

Well that's interesting. So let's talk a little bit about that startup culture. I know that, that, you know, there's the pop culture, always Dr. Dramatizes it and makes it this big, crazy, wild experience. How was that? Were you with Lively at the beginning? Were and has it changed throughout time or have you, were you recently brought on at Lively?

I've been at Lively going on two years now. Okay. So I was not in that very, very initial phase. Yeah. Um, we. Like I said, we're still considered, we're still in the startup. Right. The tail end of it. Um, but it is a very different dynamic in that I've worked for a large, you know, companies on the property management side that do have very strict departments.

Mm-hmm. And the brand line brand guidelines that you cannot deviate from. Mm-hmm. Right. Whereas in the startup world, um, I don't wanna say you're making things up as you go, uh, but you have to pivot quick. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so if you are a person that is, doesn't do well with quick change, I could see that being a big challenge.

Interesting. Um, if you're a person that can manage multiple projects and still deliver, um, and still keep all the feedback that was giving at a meeting in the back of your head for future projects and deliver on those mm-hmm. There's a lot of wheels that are turning. Um, so I could see it. I could see it being a chaotic environment for somebody that needs that more structured mm-hmm.

Uh, corporate world. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause everything's kind of fluid, I guess Yes. Is the word. Right. I mean, you can change, I mean, the, the basic tenets of what your, your audience is made up of that probably doesn't change much. Mm-hmm. But the messaging around may be certain specific. Maybe product offerings or something like that are the things that are shifting.

Right. And then we release new features and we, uh, see that our clients are using some of the features that we thought they would use one way a different way. Mm-hmm. So then we have to tweak it. Right. Um, I think also for me in particular, I lean heavily in the analytics side of marketing. Mm-hmm. And so all of the assets that we create, whether it's the email campaigns, whether it's a creative asset, I make sure that we have tracking on it mm-hmm.

To see how people are engaging with it, to see how, um, it's performing. And I have, you have to keep reviewing it and mm-hmm. Adjusting it to make sure that it's, it's performing well. Um, I set up quite a few automated campaigns. We use Salesforce. Okay. And. You cannot set and forget it, right? Mm-hmm. You cannot build out a, you know, six month campaign and not look at it.

So usually I'll start with like a small audience, set them on it, and then just watch the open rate rates, watch what they're clicking, and I will go back after a couple days, a couple weeks, and see what resonated and what didn't, and then change my templates and then send another batch of a hundred people or, or more until I'm getting.

The open rates that I, that I want mm-hmm. Um, that are usually above industry averages. So, and then you expand that to the, the whole audience at that point? Or do you still keep that, keep your audience segments small when you're doing those kind of campaigns? Is it a testing phase and then boom, this is ready for prime time type of a thing?

Um, it's a testing phase, but then I just, I release it to more people. Like I do it in batches, right. So it's not where I have a separate campaign. I wouldn't call it testing. It's still live and people are still kind of flowing through it. Um, but I go in, pause it, make my edits. Mm-hmm. Restart it, send it off again.

Um, because our audience, or our, our clients are, it's very niche, right? Mm-hmm. So I don't have to necessarily test it to too many people. It's just, I have to make sure it resonates. Um, I do have to send separate messaging, for example, a third party management company, right? So they're the ones that work with developers, um, to manage our buildings.

They need certain messaging. The developers needs a certain messaging. We also, um, have an access control component. Um, so when you pull out your phone and open your door, you know, with tapping it mm-hmm. Um, we also provide that. So then those Oh wow. That segment needs a completely different messaging.

Yeah. Um, so we, I focus on those areas. It sounds like you, your audience, even though it is very niche, within that niche, there's still. Five or six or Yeah. Eight different personas, I guess you could call 'em A lot of yes, our personas. And I think that's one thing that, um, again, having the extensive background in the industry mm-hmm.

Has made it easy for me to identify them and be able to, to talk to them, because I've also worked on the developer side. Okay. So, um, let's talk a little bit about channels. Mm-hmm. 'cause it sounds like you're using primarily email. What are the other channels that you're using? Yeah, our distribution channels, I would say to get the word out, I, I do love email marketing.

Um, I. We also use LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. Because that is where we found, um, our decision makers are and we leverage both organic and um, paid advertisements. Okay. As well. Um, I'm pretty sure LinkedIn hates me 'cause I go in and uh, upload email lists and every time they say you need to expand your audience to get better metrics.

Nope. I know who I want to target. Um, and then we leverage our blog and uh, creating content in that way. And then social selling with our team. Cool. Okay. So you do some inbound stuff. Mm-hmm. And LinkedIn. Do you pay for a lot of LinkedIn or do you how exp because I know LinkedIn can be expensive and I don't know if that's something your list is small.

Mm-hmm. Which is helpful. Um, and LinkedIn always encourages you to. Expand the list and mm-hmm. Pay more money for things. But I mean, is it expensive for what you're doing? Obviously email marketing is great 'cause the cost is low. Mm-hmm. With a startup culture, um, I set a budget on it, like a lifetime budget, so I don't let it go run crazy on its own.

Mm-hmm. And I think that again, that's the, that's the key mm-hmm. Is understanding, um, the limits. So I think as long as you are conscious of, of that, uh, could we be spending more? Sure. Right. Mm-hmm. Uh, but, uh, I'm a very frugal marketer and, uh, I think that's one of the reasons why I've been successful in, in, in the startup world, so Yeah.

Yeah. Do more with less. Yes. That was one of their phrases, I think. Yeah. Well, that's good. So leveraging emails. Mm-hmm. Leveraging LinkedIn, really just focused. Mm-hmm. And then social selling like you're talking about, and then the content marketing, those are the pillars that you using. Those are my pillars.

We did try the Google ads for a little while, but. Our market is very, it's a niche market, right? Mm-hmm. And so casting that wider net wasn't necessarily getting me the people that I was targeting. Yeah. Um, it does help get the brand awareness out. Um, but given that for me, I am, I'm a very analytical person and I need to see a result, and it's really difficult to measure.

Mm-hmm. As you know, brand awareness, as a lot of us know, well, yeah. That's a touchy subject. Right. It is a touchy subject. Brand awareness is one of those things that you can waste a lot of money on. Yep. And it depends on the perspective of who's paying those bills. Right. What's the value of that? It sounds like you're not a big proponent of that.

I mean, talk a little bit about that. No, I'm not. Uh, and every time it does come up in conversations like with our sales team, we're in a different call. I'm, I'm kind of glad that we are in a remote setting and I have a, a mute button, uh, because. Yeah, I have to definitely hold back and I don't know if people catch me rolling my eyes, uh, on camera.

So, um, no, and, and I'm not saying that there isn't a benefit to it, obviously we wanna get our branding out there. We want people to, to know who we are. I think the issue for me is just, it's so difficult to quantify. Mm mm Right? And I want to be able to tell, um, our sales, our, our CEO, our COO, uh, this is what we've accomplished.

Mm. Or this is what our team has done, and this is how things have performed. And it's just so difficult to do it with that. Um, and don't get me wrong, I love, uh, when I'm feeling down, I do love looking at my vanity metrics. Uh, I'm like, yeah, I did good. I feel good. I'm popular. Right? But, uh, at the end of the day, those are not the numbers that Yeah.

I report on and that I, I value. Right? So, um. You're looking for stuff that moves the needle. I'm looking for stuff that moves the needle. There's this connection that led to this sale that led to this dollar amount in our bank account. Then that kind of a thing. You're correct. Yeah. That's why I would imagine leadership appreciates having you on their team because you can legitimize a lot of those decisions.

And that's the thing about brand me, it's brand awareness. Mm-hmm. Campaigns is you almost need to have something that backs up a spend or an investment and then have the brand awareness maybe almost as a bolt on, depending, it seems like that might be something that, 'cause sometimes leadership, there's members of leadership teams that really appreciate, Hey, we're we are, did you see that commercial on tv?

Or whatever. And they're just like that kind of vanity thing around it. Well, it's a vanity metric, right? Yeah. That's what I, I, it's, it's a vanity metric. It's, it's great that they know your name. Mm-hmm. But that they purchase it. Right. Right. Uh, that they spend the money on it. That's, I think that's where the difference is.

Um, and to your point, I do remember, uh, early on when I first joined, uh, lively, and I was setting up the KPIs, um, for our department, uh, after a couple weeks of reporting on them, I got pinged multiple times by different team members and just saying like how refreshing it was to be able to see progress in the marketing side.

Right. Hmm. And be able to like, quantify it and, and, and see that what we're doing, um, like you said, it moves the needle forward and it's not just a, I create an asset and through it into the mm-hmm. You know, internet space and it's there, cross fingers and Yeah. Exactly. Right. And I think a lot of people do that.

Somebody wants. You mentioned that when you don't have a good plan and you're not measuring, you're really just throwing spaghetti at the wall, right? Mm-hmm. And seeing what sticks. Um, and, uh, I, that's not my approach. It needs to be strategic. A lot of things in that last say, statement there that I want to unpack, I want to kind of go back to the beginning when I started there and setting up my KPIs.

So that was something that walk us through just a little bit of what that process looks like. You're hired on welcome. Here's all your swag. Here's your polo shirt with the name on it. Here's your little notebook. What. What do you mean by that? What is the process of like, going in there were, were you given KPIs?

Were, did you just talk to leadership and say, what are you looking to do here? What are your goals? Or did you come in just like, okay, here's exactly what we have to do. God, there's a lot to impact on that question. Um, let's see. I wish I could have been given like a checklist Yeah. Of what the desires were.

Um, I think that once you get more into the executive level and the leadership team, it's your job to figure that out. Right. Okay. So my direction really came from speaking to our, uh, president and COO, uh, during the hiring process. And, uh, he was giving me his pain points and I was telling him, yes, that's experience that I have.

I could definitely make a difference. And, um, you know, we. Had really good communication, we were on the same, same page. Um, so when I got in and after they handed me my swag, um, no, I did not get any direction. It was like, here are the keys to the hassle. Ah, do as you wish. Right? And so what I had to do is, um, it's something that I think is driven in the culture and the way that Lively was built.

We don't want to provide a solution to like, you know, the top kind of problem, right? Mm. Mm-hmm. Like we have to drill in and figure out what is the, the root problem of okay, the co you know, what's causing this problem. Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of the approach that I always take is, okay, what are we doing marketing wise?

And then I realized right away that the previous, uh, marketing team did, you know, a few of the creative assets. Um. Again, startup rule, and I wasn't there, so I wasn't sure exactly what happened, but, uh, a lot of creative assets that were done and then again, just kind of thrown into Mm. Into the space.

Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and so I thought, well, what's wrong here is I don't know how any of these assets perform. Mm-hmm. Right. So we need to set up measurement. Right. And how do we do that? Well, we have to leverage Salesforce and account engagement, um, set tracking numbers for everything. Uh, we use a software called Paper Flight.

Have you heard of that? No. So I do all my rough draft and the toying around in Canva. Okay. Right. So I create things. Yep. And as soon as it's ready for it to be shared, we upload it into paper flight and paper flight. Um, I. You can generate links and send it off to clients. Um, and so that's something that our sales team and Cs everybody does.

And so it could, it ev basically if it lives in paper flight, it's ready to be shared and there's tracking mechanisms in it. We'll have to look into that. Is that something like it's, it can be sent out as email, it can be sent out as a social post. It can be sent out as like, what is the, what, what's the end result of things that come out of paper flight?

The main thing that comes out is that one you can, you can lock down your content, right? Mm-hmm. So if I want you to have access to this, uh, pitch mm-hmm. But I don't want you to forward it off to, you know, another person. Mm-hmm. There are locking mechanisms. Mm-hmm. There is a track link that only you can open.

Um, it also, if I think videos, I'm not sure exactly if it's on the one pagers, but. It shows the engagement and where you stopped and looked at it. Hmm. Um, and it tells you these assets are performing well. Or the other functionality that I really love is that if sales goes in there and they're searching, I wanna know more about maintenance ai.

What assets do we have about maintenance ai? And then only three come up or one, or there's nothing. Right. It tells me, Hey, you need to create content Yeah. Around this because there is a demand. Um, and again, if you don't set those basic mechanisms in place, you don't know what to create. And then at that point you're just, again, throwing things and seeing what sticks.

Um. Mm-hmm. And when you have a lean team, you have very limited resources. You have to make sure that you're using everything. Mm-hmm. Um, to its maximum. You know, capacity. So, so let's talk a little bit about resources, and then I got another question about sales teams. But let's talk about just budget wise.

Mm-hmm. Were you handed a budget? Did you argue for a budget? Did you just say, I think I need this much, and they're like, great, here you go. How did that conversation go to establish a budget? Um, our budgeting, I would say it's more on a case by case and depending on what we're trying to achieve at the time.

Uh, for example, if we're going into a conference mm-hmm. Um, we recently, uh, sponsored the Diamond package. Whoa. I know. Hello. Fancy. Uh, because we were trying to get that brand awareness out. Mm-hmm. And, uh, the conference had a lot of our ideal clients there, and so we wanted to be out there. So that's where brand awareness investment made a lot of sense for us.

Correct. Events, events in person are really perfect for that, I think. Yeah, right. Um, and so with that, it's one of those things where we look at it and we say, okay, well we haven't spent a lot of money here. We could. Allocate that here. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, as far as like paid advertisement, um, I will, if I'm trying to hit a certain KPI, or if I notice something dropped, um, I would go to the, uh, the president and say, Hey, look, um, how important is this to you?

Mm-hmm. Okay, good. You know, and then show him a report and say, well, this is where we're at right now, so if you wanna move the needle, like, I've done everything that I can organically. Yeah. Uh, you need to show me the money here. Like, open up the wallet. That's really interesting. Thats a good, yeah. So, um, yeah, so I think that's my, my budgeting strategy with our company.

Yep. Works. Uh, and then of course his response is always like, do the most that you can with like, least amount of money. How about half? Right. Okay. And sometimes we do, you know, sometimes we, we say, okay, we're, we're not gonna do it. Or like. This example that we, like I said, we sponsored a diamond, uh, sponsorship.

Uh, we decided it was worth, it was worth the investment worth, so, yeah. Uh, yeah. Interesting. Let's now talk about sales teams. Um, I tend to deal mostly with the VP of sales and, um, we have really good communication and I think that's, it goes back to, um, I have to give credit to, to David who is our, uh, president and COO in building the culture that we have.

Yeah. Good. Uh, he. Made sure that we had personalities that are, are compatible, right. Uh, and personalities that are able to take feedback and are able to work through disagreements. 'cause even though, you know, I call her my sales bestie, we still disagree in a lot of things. Mm-hmm. It's not like we're kinda like siblings.

Right. I was actually thinking about that last night. I was like, I feel like my relationship with, with Sarah and sales is, we're like siblings. You know, we're like, with, with each other we have good relationships and some days we just love each other. And then other days it's like we're butting heads because, you know, we're not agreeing on something and you know, it's okay if we're fighting internally mm-hmm.

But if anybody else, like a competitor or somebody like, goes after my sibling, right. That's when like claws out. Yeah. The guns come out here. Like, you know. Uh, so, uh, again, I think it goes back to, to just having. Open, really open, um, communication with your, with your teammates. Mm-hmm. And, um, working out through the problems and also understanding that, uh, what the KPIs are for each other.

Mm-hmm. So that's something that I make sure that I know what they're getting graded on, right? Mm-hmm. And, and offer my services, right. And say, what can I do for you? Interesting. To meet your goals. Yeah. Where can I help you succeed? Because if they succeed, I succeed. Yeah. Um, one of the things that David stresses a lot is that, um, you know, there's, we're on Slack a lot, right?

So mm-hmm. A lot of miscommunication can happen. Yeah. Uh, but one of the things he always stresses is that if you hear, you know, galloping. Don't assume it's a zebra, right? Mm. It's probably just horses. So don't assume that people are out to get you when they're questioning certain things. You have to assume that it's either a blocker in their process mm-hmm.

Or it's a, um, you know, a question, a legitimate question. It's not an attack. It's always gonna be, um. Something that they're inquiring for, for their project. Right. And I actually have a really good example of miscommunication. Hmm. We love these. Yeah. Great. That was driving me crazy. Oh my gosh. So again, I, I live in Salesforce.

I measure everything and I have, you know, my inbound leads that I was trying to keep tabs, like where are they going? How long is it taking us to close these deals? And I'm looking at these people and I don't see any notes from sales and Salesforce. Right. And I'm just like, oh, Sarah. Right. Um, and I'm asking them questions and I'm asking them questions and they're giving me their answers and they're not good enough answers for me.

Right. Yeah. Uh, and I'm getting frustrated and I'm complaining about it and I'm obviously getting really, really upset. And then finally I had to take a step back and. Call, uh oh. Whoa. Call. Not a phone call. A phone call of all things. Actually call and talk to a human. Um, so I was talking to one of our sales rep and uh, I was asking him, you know, like, Hey, we sent you this lead.

Walk me through what you do. Yeah, right. Like, walk me through your process. And as he's like walking me through his process, I realize. They submit their notes and their reports in a completely different section than I'm looking for. Oops. Right. So who is at fault? Oh yeah. Uh, but that opened my eyes to right areas of improvement in, in our process.

And, uh, now I know where to look, and I'm working in a way to better integrate that information from our sales CRM side to account engagement. Mm-hmm. Uh, which is the marketing side of Salesforce. Yeah. You know, you touch on a lot of interesting things that I think are very common, and it's this dynamic, I'll call it dynamic mm-hmm.

Relationship between sales and marketing and a lot of organizations that we've run across. Sometimes it's. Very separate. Sometimes they're the same person. Sometimes they're just have this contentious mm-hmm. Relationship because sales goals are not aligned with marketing goals or they're misaligned or something like that.

So they're Bill breeds this kind of weird discontent between the two teams. And I think from talking to you earlier, it sounds like there's, and from what you just said. There's a lot of work to figure that dynamic out on just a personal level. Mm-hmm. So that there isn't that type of friction that inevitably there will be friction.

We know that. But it's great to hear that you are actually listening to what sales and understand that salespeople's goals are this. Mm-hmm. And I want to help them do this and accomplish these kind of goals. What other things have been brought about? Are there tools? Are there exercises? Are there things that are done, activities within your organization to kind of build that bond between sales and marketing?

Because. That's, I think where we've, there's always funny stories around that. Borderline. Yeah. It's interesting. Um, gosh, that's a in difficult question to answer. I, I think at the end of the day, it really does boil down to leadership. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And the type of culture that, um, the leaders are, are promoting.

Mm-hmm. Um, before I got hired at Lively, I had to go through a culture index to determine like my personality and see how I would fit with, with the role, and I'm sure with, um, you know, David's vision of the company, um, and. A year after, you know, I was hired, we had a, a retreat for our teams and we were analyzing the different personalities and that's where, for me, it was really eyeopening in the different communication styles that are needed and the sensitivity that we have to have, because I'm the kind of person that I thrive on.

You giving me a checklist mm-hmm. And I will run with it. People struggle with making sales material all the time. Mm-hmm. Whether it's presentations or one sheets or eBooks or something like that. What, what, is there some secret sauce? Do you do that? Do you have a team that does that? How, how, what, what's in, give us some tips on maybe some quick and easy ways people can do that.

I think the best thing that I was introduced to in order to produce a asset without having a million revisions mm-hmm. Is to make sure that you define what the ask is. Right. So if sales, uh, it's very common, right? It is not just sales. It could be anybody in the company, right? Mm-hmm. They come to you and they say, I need a one pager on this.

Mm-hmm. And that's all the information they give me. And then I have to back it up and be like, no, no, no. Okay, who are we sending it to? Who's the audience? And a couple sentences tell me, what is it, what is the message that you're trying to say? Like, what exactly do you wanna portray? Um, uh, what are you expecting?

What's, what's the, uh, call, call to action? Mm-hmm. Do you want them to go to our website? Do you want them to just read the form? What, what exactly are you looking for? Um, and I found that is the best way to start any kind of, um, content creation. Um, because otherwise, if somebody tells me, for example, make a one pager about your maintenance ai.

Okay, great. I'll do it. I, I'm very familiar with the topic. Let me get on there and I'll get you a one pager. And then of course they're like, no, this is not what I wanted at all. Mm, mm-hmm. You know, because I'm gonna send it to the engineering team and they need the specs. Well, you didn't say that. That would've been nice to know that.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think part of our job is to reach back out and say, okay, I need more information. Like, what exactly are you looking for? Um, and uh, I did find that having a. Form in theory is good. Hmm. But in actual, like real life, nobody fills it out. Well, it's almost like you could use the form and you pull it up and then you're Correct.

Going through the questions, and that is exactly what happens. That's exactly what ends up happening, is I have to go through all the questions and then ask them where are you gonna send it to? Are you going to email it? Because then there's different, you know, parameters there. Are you gonna post it on social?

What, what are, where are you gonna send it? Who's gonna look at it? Yeah. Um, and then at that point I can, um, start the work on creating it. Um, and my creative process is mostly, like I said, I do all my, um, my dabbling in Canva with mm-hmm. I call it, um. What is it? Uh, copy paste. Mm-hmm. A lot of like, kind of where, where I'm seeing it and then out to step back and then clean it up and then it goes to a different version.

So, um, and the nice thing about, uh, a software like paper flight, which is where we house, like our final approved assets, is that you can always go back and upload a revision without killing any of my links. Oh, nice. Oh, oh, wow. Yeah. So if you sent it to a client yesterday, but then you found a typo, yeah.

You could upload the new version and then when they click on it, they get the new version. That's a pro tip there. That's good. Yeah. Shameless plug here. We have a freebie on our website. Please go to marketing team one.com. In the freebie section we actually have a PDF form that will help you sit down.

Yes, you will be the one filling it out. But it gives you a great framework to start asking all those questions that you ask. What is it, what is it? What are we delivering? Mm-hmm. Deadlines and all that stuff. So that's a really good tip, and it's great that you mentioned that. Well, and what are you hoping to get out of it, right?

Like or the goals. Yeah. Right. What's your goal with it? Because it's very different with different departments, different people. Or it could be something as simple as like, I'm just, it's creating a soft, you know, touchpoint here. Mm-hmm. So, very different. Are you involved at all in onboarding new salespeople?

Uh, do you build tools for them? Do you, is there, what's that process look like as far as getting somebody in the group? Uh, I'm not in involved in the onboarding in the sense of, um, like. Procedures, obviously they have their own way of, of learning the material. I am involved in the first week more as like an introduction.

Mm-hmm. Right. And they spend an hour or two with me and I use that time to walk them through Salesforce. Mm. And my side of things and what I'm looking for and the functionalities and the AI capacity that we have. Mm mm-hmm. Um, all the automations that they should be aware are coming. So for example, uh, if somebody does open one of the emails and that client or not client prospect is assigned to somebody, they'll get notified.

Right. So I have to make sure that they're aware of that so that they, they can leverage that when they're doing their outreach. Mm-hmm. Um, I also use that time because like we've said previously, uh, I do have a very dry personality in paper on Slack. Right. I'm very, uh, I'm very professional and, um, short and to the point.

And, uh, I don't know if you can tell, but, uh, you know, I, you seem, I'm shocked. I'm totally shocked. Um. And so people don't, people don't, I mean, that's one of the things that feedback that I've gotten in the past from previous employees right? Is that they don't really know me. And so I do take that time to make sure that, uh, they know that I'm here mm-hmm.

And that I'm here to help them and, uh, my door is open and feel free to, uh, to reach out to me. Um, and I think that that's, it's really funny because I know I recently got criticized about some of the content I post on LinkedIn. Oh. Not being like Uber professional. Right. As far as like, I don't have those rigid.

You know, standing poses with like, other, other people at conferences, you know, like mine are more like total goofball almost, you know, I don't wanna say it's like Facebook style, but they're definitely more casual and it's strategic. Um, I do that on purpose because I don't want people to, um, be afraid to come up to me and talk to me if they see me.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I wanna make sure that they know the door is open. Um, if they see me at a conference, I want them to say, oh my God, this, this woman's a goofball. I can totally come by and say hi. Right? Yeah. Where I've, you know, met other VPs that are so rigid, it's intimidating, right? So talk to leadership.

Um, and so I want people to see that, uh, yeah, it's come by, say hi, you know, you're humanizing yourself. Yeah. That's perfectly normal. That's what you're. But again, I was criticized on it recently, so it's okay. That's, yeah. It sounds too stuffy for me. I don't know. But um, so do you go through, like you said, there's a personality, what's the, what's the personality test that everybody goes through?

Uh, a culture index. Um, I don't know if everybody in the company goes through it. Um, I know all the leadership team did. Um, I came out as a trailblazer, uh, which basically, I mean, it really does describe me to a t, um, but it's more of like, let's identify a problem and find a solution. Mm-hmm. And, and like I mentioned previously, I don't need somebody to give me a through Z instructions.

Right. Gimme the gist. What are you trying to do? Mm-hmm. Um, and then, you know, I'll take it the rest of the way. Um, but it's just. Yeah, I, I think, but building that relationship, I think even with the new people and mm-hmm. Again, having that open, it's not open doors, open Slack policy at the open. An open Slack policy.

I like that. Nice. Yeah. Just ping me anytime. And I do, you know, I'm actually really surprised at some of the, uh, requests that I get from time to time with people that I don't necessarily interact with on a daily basis. They'll say, Hey, I'm trying to write this email and it's just not coming out right.

And I'm really nervous because it is, you know, an important client or whatever. Can you take a look at it? Sure. You know, and then I, I tweak it for them. Um, but you have to have that comfort level to be able to go to somebody and say, I need your help. And I always, you know, one of the things is like, ask for help, you'll get it.

Right? Yeah. Like, I'm more than happy to stop what I'm doing and help you out. So what other challenges do they run into? Maybe not so much new, but anybody, I guess, on the sales team, are there any other challenges that they're dealing with that you can help them with? It sounds like maybe communication items, building tools for them, what other Yeah, we do, uh, we'll target, like if they're trying to close a certain, you know, client mm-hmm.

Um, and if especially they're on the bigger side, we could do targeted marketing for them. Mm-hmm. I'll create content that's very tailored and specific. Mm. Nice. Um. As opposed to like my evergreen content that I, I tend to focus on more, uh, is again, they just need to, to ask. Mm-hmm. Um, and then we could, we could get it done.

So that, that's one of the challenges, just creating the content that they'll use. Mm-hmm. I think for me, my, one of my biggest peeves is if I spend hours on like a one pager mm-hmm. And then I put it up on paper, paper flight, and then nobody uses it. Mm. After they requested it and we're how nagging me about it for like a week.

Right. And I finally get it out there and then I'm checking on the stats. Yeah. To see like, how many times has it been reshared and nobody has looked at it. Ooh. Oh, believe me. Then the claws come out. I remember next time you ask me for something, I'd be like, well, are you gonna use it? Let's look at the record here.

Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. What is your superpower? Oh gosh, my superpower. Um. I think with, with the role I'm in right now and the industry that I'm in right now, my superpower is definitely understanding like our ideal customers and tailoring messaging to them. I think that comes very easily and naturally to me.

Um, yeah, I think so. How do you think you gained that? Is that something that you read up on or is it just going and knowing who those people are? Meeting them at shows or actually going out on, you know, well, I mentioned I've been in the industry for a long time. Yeah. So I've been in every position, you know, like, yeah.

I, from, again, leasing to, I, at one point I was actually doing, um, writing financial models for a, uh, company when they were gonna purchase apartment communities. Oh wow. So I'm very familiar with like the, the performa process and what they're looking for, which I think it's also why, um, more of an al analytical person.

Yeah. Um. I remember it stuck with me forever. Uh, the gentleman that was our lead in that department, he would always say, you have to be so careful with the data because with these models right, if you put junk, the outcome's gonna be junk. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So you have to make sure that everything is accurate.

And, um, and that kind of stuck with me, especially now working with ai. Right. Um, I, I see a lot of people complain about how it comes up with like junk answers. Mm-hmm. Or it doesn't do things right. And it's like, well that's, that's the data that you're feeding it. Right? Like, I've tailored my AI so much so that it.

It knows me really well. Yeah. And it knows what I'm looking for, and it's very rare that it comes out with an answer that I'm just like, no, you're wrong. Let's talk a little bit about ai. Mm-hmm. Because it's interesting, I know that we've had conversations in the past. You gave a talk on ai, uh, quite a while back.

Mm-hmm. So you, you're, you're an expert. I would call you an expert from what I've, you've told me mm-hmm. The way that you've actually, you as ai, almost as a, as an assistant mm-hmm. Or somebody that you can converse with back and forth. You've built your own custom gpt. Mm-hmm. Talk me, talk me through some of those other ways that you're using AI now to kind of enhance your career and your effectiveness.

Gosh, you know, well, with, with ai, we're, it, it is a power struggle in my mind. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I believe in, in ai and, and I put on my. Positive glasses. I don't use my doomsday glasses. Um, and I think that it's gonna do wonders. I, I love that it can tailor the conversation to something that I'm looking for.

Mm-hmm. Um, but the cost I think is high. Right. So in the sense that, like my ai, I believe I have a recollection, I think I linked it to my LinkedIn. Um, I know, really. I, I know. Uh, and so what do you mean linked it to your LinkedIn? I think at some point, I remember going through settings and it's like, do you wanna give them access to your LinkedIn?

And I was like, oh. Well, I work heavily in that channel. Yeah. So is it gonna make my life, you know, I pondered it for a second. I was like, is it gonna make my life easier? Am I selling my soul here? Um, and I was like, it's gonna be convenient. Yes. Right. But it, it, it's at that cost. So that's where I have a, you know, back of the mind doomsday scenario that I try not to, to think about.

So it's training on the content and the things that you're liking and you're, you're commenting on, or? I didn't go that deep. Oh, okay. Into like how it works. Yeah. But yes, based on the responses that I get back from it. Okay. I, it definitely knows my work history and, uh, it knows, uh, it knows me pretty decently.

So, um, yeah. Uh, I think it's just making things much more efficient. Okay. Right. Communication wise, if I'm trying to write an email, uh. For me, one of my challenges again is softening my tone in written form. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so that's where I use a lot of help in like, this is what I wanna say, and I'm angry and make it sound nice, you know?

Um, there's a pro tip. I like that. Take your angry email. Mm-hmm. Throw it back in a chey PT and say, make me sound really nice, but diplomatic and. You know, does a good job of that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. No, and it's been, it's been really, really well. Um, I'm often surprised at how the different words it uses, because again, there's so much emotion that goes on with you every day or after looking at a certain topic over and over.

Right. You kind of start mm-hmm. Having those narrow. Mm-hmm. Uh, views. And so having just a different approach, I think it, it's been super beneficial. So I use it extensively in that and also with outlines and guidelines and how to, I'm trying to do this or my campaign is not working. Mm-hmm. Tell me mm-hmm.

Possible. Give me five reasons why this isn't working. These are my numbers and I'm trying to get here. What am I doing wrong? Interesting. Interesting. Oh yeah. Chapter PT is my bestie for sure. So it's analyzing data. You plug in a lot of the data around maybe a specific campaign, and you say, help me get to this level with I I asked it that too.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do it all the time. I can usually kind of determine, right. Mm. Like what I'm doing wrong sometimes. Uh, but if there's certain things that I'm just like. I've pulled out every trick in the book. Yeah. Like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. Then I go to Ji Bt and say like, Hey, help.

Yeah. So interesting. So, you know, you've got a sixth sense then for kind of that you've got a really good handle on the content and how to do things. What, what things get you stuck? What, what are some of those things that maybe chat GPT or you just know inherently is, is it a headline the way it's written?

Is it too long? I mean, what, what other specific things? Is there a common pattern of issues that maybe show up or is it pretty unique across any campaign? Um, well it depends. Again, it goes back to the, the micro messaging. Right. Who are you sending it to? Who's the audience? Mm-hmm. And what are you trying to get out of it?

Um, for some of like our conference, uh, follow-ups or you know, pre-conference shows. Emails that we do. Yeah. Like it's, the titles are very important, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but for me, I'm not necessarily too crazy concerned. We tend to get a really good open rate. I wanna know why they're not going forward.

Mm-hmm. And clicking on my demo or submitting a form. Mm-hmm. Like where, where am I going wrong? Like, what's going on here? Right. Um, as far, like I said, they open it, they see it, they know who we are, and we get validation of that. Like when we are at conferences, right? Mm-hmm. And say we don't have a diamond package.

If we just have like a booth or just walking around, they do recognize us, right? Mm-hmm. So I know that the marketing is working. Um, it was something that we had discussed when I first joined the company. Um, you know, they're like, where are you working? I've never heard of it. And then now it's like, oh, people are seeking us out.

So it is working, it is out there, but why aren't you filling out my form? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? So, so that, those are the conversations that I have with my. My Chachi pt. Do you, uh, getting back to email again, is there, uh, is there a frequency, we always have big debates about frequency rates and email campaigns and things like that.

Is that something that there's some general conversation that we can have about that, or is it really just so specific to the campaign or the offer or whatever, that there's really no general tips around, like, don't send an email every four hours or, you know, those kind of ideas around? Or is it just too custom?

You know, you can't look for shortcuts. Okay. Yeah, you gotta put in the work. Okay. You gotta identify your ideal client and figure out what's works for them. There is no one. Solution. Mm-hmm. That's gonna like solve all your problems magically. Right? It's like there isn't not anything I know. Darn. Um, you have to identify your clients and the message.

And then again, like I said, even with the, our drip campaigns, I, it's not a set and forget. Mm-hmm. I am constantly, you know, testing out different batches or seeing what is working, what isn't. Um, one really good example I had in my early, early days of sending out massive, and this is another reason why I go on the smaller scale initially.

Mm-hmm. Um, I sent out, I dunno, it was a lot, it was a lot of emails and I started this drip campaign and then all of a sudden I started getting back, unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe, subscribe. Oh gosh. Yeah. I was having an anxiety attack. That's terrible. Um, and I could not figure out what happened. And so I'm reading and reading and reading.

Right. Well, all the email servers now have. Where they go and they check your links, right? Mm-hmm. So if you have an unsubscribe button that immediately unsubscribes them from your email, if they click on it, as opposed to sending them to a preference page, yes. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

Oh. And that was, uh, for me, it was like, why is it coming like right, like one after another after another. What's going on here? Um, and so it was, you have to be really up to date on the email, um, servers and you know mm-hmm. The providers and, and their policies and what they're using. Uh, when you're sending out, send out campaigns, so the goal, ideally then you send 'em to a preference page where they can Yes.

Click the sliders and say, just not this or, yeah. As opposed to just a generic unsubscribing and boom, they're off the list. That's a, that's a good pro tip. That's good. That's good. You know, during our conversation, it seems like, you know, whenever we talk about your industry and the specifics of what you're doing, you, you really light up.

It seems like you're very excited about working in this. What, what makes you, uh, you've been doing it forever and this is what you have, obviously have a passion for what other aspects of what you're doing give you that, you know, that life, that, that excitement for what you're doing. You know, having been in multifamily for so long, I, I get really excited about.

Just knowing and understanding the different, um, points of view from, you know, your leasing agents, your maintenance guys. Mm. I learned so much from maintenance. Like, I'm the kind of person I, I will, I recently, uh, cleaned out a p trap in my sink and I learned that from one of, of my maintenance guys. Yeah.

Uh, and so I, you know, I really, I'm passionate about the industry and I've been here so long, um, just because I feel like I know every aspect of it. Mm-hmm. And I'm very familiar and yes. Uh, analytics and ai, it's new and it's exciting. Right. But how is it affecting. How is it rolling down? Right? Like how is it affecting all levels of everybody's work and life?

I mean, obviously it is that it's gonna be the, the, the ai, what are they calling AI generation, not AI generation. They have a certain term for it. Um, the age of ai. Age of AI or the evolution. Yeah. It's the age of AI right now. And we are, I was having a conversation with an engineer recently and he was so bummed out 'cause he's like, we just missed it.

Right. We're like, our age group is right at that beginning stages where I see it differently. I'm like, what are you talking about? We are creating it. Mm-hmm. We're the ones that are at the, at the forefront of it. Right. Like, we're making it what it's going to be so that when my kids are using it, it's like I impacted that.

Mm-hmm. Right? And so I see that as exciting and I think that's why, uh, to me it's really exciting to be in an industry that I saw. Not have it at all to now. Mm-hmm. Where, um, every tool that we're providing has an AI component. Mm-hmm. Um, and then just seeing how it, uh, it affects all the workflows. So I think it's exciting.

Very exciting times. You have some people that you work with on your team to help you do your job. You're, you have people that do certain parts of your job or help you assist with that. What do you look for when you're, uh, bringing those people into your, into your group, your team? I always look for people that are smarter than me.

Hmm. Nice. I look for people that have a different skillset. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I have a, uh. You know, I call her my coworker. Um, she's based out of overseas and she does a lot of the, the research portion and, uh, talking with engineering team so that when we're creating our messaging, you know, our specs are correct, it's not just fluff.

We're actually giving some really good, um, information about our, our product and all the functionalities of it. Um, and so I need people that have different skill sets than I have mm-hmm. Again, that are smarter. Mm-hmm. Um, because I, with it being a lean team, we can't sit down and micromanage, right? So if you're telling me, Hey, I did some research and A, B and C is not right.

Mm-hmm. And I'm not familiar with the topic, um, I'm gonna be like, okay, well I believe you. Let's do it. Right. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's been a couple times where it's like, no, I've tried that before. We're going my way. Right. But for the most part, you know, just having, uh, a team that, um. You know, building a team that's just really smart and, and respectful and, um, I think that creates, creates for a good working environment.

Yeah. What advice would you give, uh, other marketing teams of one out there? I think the biggest thing is you need to make sure you're staying organized and, uh, being able to anticipate the needs of your teams. Mm-hmm. So that you're not caught off guard and managing expectations. Uh, I do believe it is something that comes with experience, right.

It can be be very intimidating going back to your president and COO and being like, no, I disagree. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, that can be very intimidating. Uh, but when you. Show up to a meeting and you have the numbers to back you up. It's a very easy conversation to have, and it's a very easy way mm-hmm. Uh, to get the answer that you're looking for.

And it goes both ways. Right. Sometimes the data goes against something that I thought would happen mm-hmm. And I have to pivot. Um, but for the most part, I think being able to, to again, manage those expectations. Mm-hmm. Um, and also when you have a request and, uh. I need it tomorrow. It's urgent, urgent, urgent.

Right. Uh, it is very important to give your sales teams what they need, but then also turn around and say, Hey, look, um, I'll do it for you this time. I will stop everything I'm doing and I will get this out for you so you could email your client in 10, 15 minutes or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, but next time, you know, I do have, uh, other deadlines.

I do have my work week planned out, and I would appreciate it if you give me a three day leeway if possible. Mm-hmm. Um, because when you come to me and ask me for something urgent, I will stop at everything else that I'm doing and I will push other deadlines and other departments, um, request to make yours happen.

So just be aware that that's how the dynamic functions and, um, I think that that has helped out a lot. Um, I, I just, I cannot stress enough that it's setting up. Your marketing department with the tools to measure. Mm-hmm. That's the best advice that I can give somebody, is just making sure that you get away from just throwing things at the wall and saying if it works right?

Like that's not, that's not very good. Like come prepared. Um, I think that ultimately is what, um, gave me the credibility with my sales team mm-hmm. To when I tell them, no, that messaging is not gonna resonate. I really don't get arguments like I used to in earlier in my career. Right? Mm-hmm. Where it's like, no, no, it is.

You don't know. I'm client facing la la la. Right? Mm-hmm. Uh, now I'm just like, well, look, here is the open rates and then here's where they clicked. Uh, and so, and then again, just not taking anything. Personal in the sense that it's not an attack, just fix it. Right. If somebody gives you criticism mm-hmm.

Just take notes and fix it. Um, mm-hmm. I, I, I see often, especially in the, the newer marketers, younger marketers that are just take, so like every criticism, just Mm. It's a personal attack and it's not Mm. You know, you're never going to be able to, to predict what some people like and others don't. Mm-hmm.

And there's been many trivial things that I'm just like. I disagree, but it's not worth the fight. Right? Mm-hmm. I will just do it for you. And it's not personal, it's just a thing. And then I come back to them with the numbers and be like, see, I told you that color didn't work, because I'm petty like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that would be my advice. Just set it, set up your, your, your, get your set up so that you are able to, to measure and monitor and, um, go prepared. Yeah. Set those goals mm-hmm. KPIs at the front end and, you know, establish all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, well this has been really insightful.

I've really learned a lot actually. It's been very good. Interesting to hear somebody who's so driven by the data. Mm-hmm. Which is, you know, I think in some parts of this business, it's hard to get data. Mm-hmm. And it's hard to measure, you know, the effectiveness of things like a new logo or things like that, that are a lot more challenging mm-hmm.

To, uh, put, put numbers around. But it's refreshing to hear, um. Some of the points that you made today, so I appreciate it. Thank you Yes, for being here on our podcast. It's been, yeah, you're welcome. Wonderful. Thank you very much. It's been great.

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