JUST Make a Podcast

Can you just, like, come up with a better podcast theme? Just can we just get this thing started? Can we just start the podcast? Can we just, can we just…sure. Let's do it.

Welcome to the Marketing Team of One podcast, where we have conversations about the issues one person marketing teams face when trying to meet their goals with limited time and budgets. Now here's your hosts, Eric and Mike. Eric, what's going on today?

You know, it's another day. I'm just triggered, Mike. You're just triggered? What are you triggered about? Well, I know it sounds like I just reduced being triggered with the word just, but I'm, it's my own brand of being triggered, honestly. I'm triggered by the word just. And it's happened so often. Yeah, I'm just triggered by the word just.

Can't you just let it go? I've tried. I've tried my whole life. Honestly. But it just builds up and then at some point you're, I'm, I'm just triggered. So this is like the worst four letter word you encounter in life. I think I will get that. If I do get a tattoo, that would be the only tattoo I get. J U S T.

Just. Yeah. Exactly. Just you just triggered. Yeah, it can't put triggered on here. No, you'd have to anyway. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's one of those words. And I think today's episode, we're going to talk a little bit about, I want to talk about some of these triggering words that are reductionist. Reduce everything you do down to just a word that seems to be just thrown off in a conversation as, as being Dismissive almost.

Dismissive, yep. There's a lot of judgment that comes with that word just. Yeah, I could see how that would Yeah, come, come across. Yeah, I'm feeling a little bit better. I appreciate the time to chat about this because I'm, my blood pressure is reduced. Well, let's unpack this a little bit. Don't you mean we'll just unpack this?

Let's just unpack this a little bit. See how we bring it into everything we talk about at some point where it just becomes just this filler word that is just used all the time. Let's do that. And then let's, let's get into some other like trigger words that we That we hear a lot and set us off because I think it's more than just one word It's definitely more than just one word.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's a few different words and phrases Yeah, there's just some things out there that are As you look back on them, it's funny because language has a style that changes and moves up and down throughout the decades, and a lot of these things are stylistic in nature, I think. You know, we used to say them a different way 30 years ago.

Now there's a new way of saying it with maybe one or two less words so that it's quicker and easier and the vernacular is a much more, you know, shorthand for so much more communication. Everybody's trying to say words and save. Resources and time and all these things. So we latch onto some of these words and phrases that, uh, you know, could sometimes be insensitive to the people hearing it in your audience.

So it's good to talk about. Sounds awesome. All right. So let's unpack it. Words confused, Mike. I think you started a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Grunts. Grunts are better. Microaggressions. That's what the word just represents. Doesn't it? It is. You you'll be able to fit it in. I think. The word just is used to lump in a lot of different types of activities.

And some of them are hard and some of them are easy. And we tend to lump the word just with everything that's easy. And so there's already built in this implication that there's no effort involved in doing anything that begins with just. And so when there's requests that come through from leadership.

stakeholders. Can you just, if it's go unplug that cord. Okay. But if it's just go build that website and then put together that, just go do the email campaign. But it's never really that simple, right? When those requests that I think a lot of people that would never say, can you just build a website? It's a more complicated thing.

Like, mhm. I don't know why this is so hard. Can't you just take all their information and then create, and then, um, send an email to all of them on a weekly basis and get that done today? So in that instance, you're kind of exploring the idea that somebody is making a lot of assumptions on that. There's a disconnect between what the work it takes in the complexity that might be in there.

Right? There's a thousand steps to that. And I think there's in I, the more I think about it, I think a lot of times I, I don't think people use it in a demeaning way. I don't think people mean to do that. Sure. I think it might be a sensitivity, a hypersensitivity on the part of the people who, who don't feel like their role is understood.

That's a great point. And I think that's probably a common thing that many marketers you know, especially solo marketers, small teams run into that friction a lot, where people assume that everything they do or parts of what they do, a lot of what they do is super easy and they can just push two buttons and it's all finished.

But people have done step two profit. Yeah. That's how we do things. Yeah. Well, how would you solve that? I mean, how would you kind of fix that? And is it something that, uh, We need to have the word police out there on stake, stakeholders and leadership saying okay when we use the word just We can only do it in these kind of situations I'm on a my feeling on it is that we need to Maybe let it go and use it as keep it as an inside joke I don't think attacking people at the point that it said is good at all You're not gonna have a good outcome out of that like take a breath.

Take a pause and like You They don't understand. Right. Or, maybe they understand really well, and you don't. Like, maybe they have some expertise to where they, they totally understand what they're asking is fairly simple and straightforward. So just maybe applicable. Well, and they might have some previous experience doing that thing, whatever it is.

And so in their mind because they've done it five times or 20 times or a hundred times, they've reduced it in their own mind. Going back though, and looking at it maybe from a, Perspective of somebody who doesn't have that much experience doing it. They should maybe Be more sensitive to that because I know hmm.

I've made that mistake where I've assumed people can do certain things Quickly and easily because I've done them three times and now I can do it quickly and easily But the first two times were not quick and easy and there was a learning curve. It's kind of a filler word true Don't judge people too hard on a filler word.

You know, like, like, um, like, you know, are you going to judge me for all those? Like, I use just all the time. So do I all the time, all the time. It's more like when it, when it's matched up, it's a mismatch of what the request is. That's when it gets heightened. If I'm on the receiving end of just. I almost, it's almost comical to me.

Can you just, I'm like, okay, I'm going to swallow that. I'm not going to call somebody out on that. And then I'm going to go silently rage or I'm just going to like laugh it off. I'm like, Oh gosh, it's an annoying word. It can be annoying word. It's, it's so it puts something on the other person, especially if their sensitivities are tuned to it.

So on the flip side, I know I use it a lot, but I do try. not to. Okay. When I'm, am I most aware, I might say, can you do this thing that are like, I almost pause the same amount of length that I would say just, and try and just not say it. Just not say it. Just not say it. Right. Right. Perfect. But yeah, I don't know.

I think it's just, my thinking is back to the whole, if somebody says it, like calling somebody out right away on it and, and getting, me. Like a call to arms like it's more complicated than that. What do you why are you? There's there's a misunderstanding there that needs to be worked I think in lately I think the way I've been trying to handle it is because I think my radar is heightened to it knowing That I've used it as a weapon of mass destruction at times That I, I need to make fun of it.

And that's, you know, cause I'm still going to use the filler word. You're right. And some of that is, yeah, me reducing what I think is a trivial effort. Yeah. I mean, it's not a trivial effort. I mean, every effort is not trivial. There's something involved. There's learning, there's practicing and then getting expertise around it.

So I do catch myself saying just, and then I'll come back and say, you know, just Yeah. And try to lighten the mood a little bit. Trying to give some compassion to the people that I'm talking to about this. Because I do want people to understand in those critical times when they say, just do the annual report or just do all the analytics on my website for the last two years.

You know, there's, there's a point of where you can, you can use that. And if you just come back to it quickly and just say, oh, okay, just, I'll just do that. It's probably going to be. a positive experience and then people will have a little bit better understanding, you know, or come back and say, well, that's not a real just that's yeah.

There's some effort that's going to be involved in doing that. And so maybe those are constructive ways to handle that word. Yeah. I, the more I think about it, it's a, it comes down to misunderstanding. If you're on the receiving end of that, I think some of the things you could do instead of combating it right in there and say, don't use the word just right.

Cause it's, it's one word. It's not. Right. But maybe there's some education into, like, how long some of these things take or unpacking that a little bit. Like, maybe you could, you would say to me, Hey, can you just do this thing? I'm like, well, yeah, but that means that I would have to do this and this and this in it, like use that as an educational thing to kind of like build that up.

Misunderstanding thing and then maybe maybe you've got it figured out. Maybe you know how to do it Maybe there's a skill gap that I don't know. Well, that's what that's the point I'm yeah, right and then you buy me unpacking it for you. You were like, well, yeah And then you see you where you were gonna do this I think we could do this thing Mm hmm, and that would save you some time Or you can do this thing or you could just try not to add more just so the just pile But maybe there's I think there's a lot, it's, a lot of it comes down to misunderstandings.

Yeah, it's, it goes both ways. I like that analogy, because you can top down, Oh, well I assumed it was this way, this way, and this way, and then maybe it's the job of the person taking those directions or whatever, to explain to them all the steps. But then also that could open up that conversation for that stakeholder or that leader to say, Oh, well, my understanding was you can use these two tools and it'll do these five steps for you.

And then that person would be like, Oh, okay. Maybe during the conversation you put a star by that and come back and visit that just comment and not to point out, Hey, don't use the word just, but just explain that. Use it as an educational time to learn. And I think this, the tactic might even work for people who don't have, okay.

Skill in that same thing, right? Like, so if you've got, if you've got a manager or somebody who's looking at who says, can you just, and they're coming from the, they've oversimplified it. Cause they have no idea what's done. If you do unpack it for them, they might soften their stance and go, Oh gosh, I didn't realize that's all involved.

Just by itself is fine, but just has, Yes. other implications, that it'll be quick, that it can be done efficiently, that it's not a speed bump to getting other things. Right. And if those are true, like those are problems, then just isn't applied anymore. And that the person saying that might not know that.

So educating them on the steps in a way like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I'm just going to play back for you. What I think, what I think we need to do to make this happen. Talk through the steps, just talk through the steps. And that's where it really comes down to. I think it opens up for. A little bit better collaboration as well, because there can be opportunities then highlighted within that clarification conversation where, um, Oh, we don't need to do that part of it.

You know, maybe somebody sees like, okay, well let's pull this out, this out, and then we don't have to do that part. And that'll save you time doing X, Y, Z. And then you can move on to meeting all the goals of it by paring down. If that just situation is a little overwhelming, you know? Yeah. Rolls downhill, right?

Like in a lot of times if you're at the bottom of the hill, that's where it's all going, right? You're the last person to deal with this thing. Yeah, you're pushing it over the finish line for us We're in client services and a lot a lot of the time we are we would be down there When you start hearing just from people who maybe don't have their stuff organized.

Mm hmm It adds more stress to the situation because there's, there's a misunderstanding of what needs to be done. There's time pressure. You don't have all the information you might need to know why that's come or why that's come down. So it just adds this like pressure cooker like thing to where you put so much weight on the word just.

Yeah. And. Maybe that's not what, maybe they just used it as filler, you know, like it's, I, I, They just used it as filler. I mean, when we brainstormed this topic and we started talking about just and how it was so much, it was such a trigger word. Yeah. I was trying to think why is it, why is it so much a trigger word for a lot of people?

My, my take is you're not going to be able to change the way people, the words people use all the time. Yeah, that was kind of my point about the word police is like, of course, we're not going to be changing that behavior. Just putting a different kind of angle to it and highlighting it as something that when you do just say it.

Yeah. That you bring light to it, or if, if it is something that is triggering and trying to make it into a positive. I think that's the important thing about any sort of those types of trigger words. I think it's tough, too, when you've got dependencies that you're not in control of. Mm hmm. Uh, to accomplish certain goals.

It's a really difficult thing to, you know, some of our projects that we work on, they're collaborative and they rely on us using a lot of different people. And when some of. You know, some of those things break down for whatever reason, people, or just situations, timing, whatever. Um, that puts added stress to things, so the just then really stings even harder, like you just illustrated.

If someone is trying to reduce down what you do into the word just, they might be. But I don't think it's as intentional as maybe it is. So I think if you can give them a little bit of grace, but then also kind of, kind of educate them on why that isn't as simple as it is. I think it's a pathway to understanding for everybody.

And maybe, and, and awareness, like self awareness, like maybe I don't know everything. Maybe there is an easier way to do this. Maybe there's an angle I didn't think about with this. Well, and I think the other side, to speak to that a little bit, is about perspective. Cause, uh, I'm a creative director. I direct projects and have teams of people working on things for me, all different.

At all different times, and I look at things, my perspective a lot of the time is that kind of global vision of the whole project or that 30, 000 foot view that there's another triggering phrase that people love to hear. So my conversations reduce down complicated tasks to simple phrases and say, you, photography, right?

Yeah, you'll just do the photography. Yeah. I got it. You'll just do the videography. Yeah, so i'm reducing it by My perspective where I have that larger view of whole projects where I need to speak in terms of You know chunks of activities. And so yes, I do reduce them and guilty as charged by doing that But that speaks to my perspective on the project at that time.

That's an angle I didn't really think about until you just mentioned it's that perspective of where you're at And what your what your role is, right? So if you're you're a marketer the the task at hand the just do the marketing i'm gonna go like it really Just do the marketing, right? Let's say you're a boss, the boss is thinking about marketing, sales, operations, finances.

And so their perspective is just like you said, they're reducing that down because that's just one part of everything that needs to work for the business to thrive. Whereas like with marketing, they're not, they, they might have some interplay with a couple of the other parts, but really that's their focus.

So you're like, it can matter. To the boss, all those different parts, they should matter to the boss, all those different parts. Right. But I could see how it could be like, you know what? Just do the marketing. What's so hard. I could see like, I hired you to do the marketing. What's so hard. I know. Just, just do the marketing.

Maybe, but maybe they're just, it's hard not to say this word. I'm trying not to use the word and it's really ruining me.

It could be. It's not occupying as much space in the brain, the brain. It's not that it's not as much important. It has as much importance. And I think it's, it's, it's either a double edged sword. I'm not sure on that, but let's think about that. Like keep playing, pulling on that thread a little bit. When you talk to leadership and stakeholders who are removed from the process, have they ever done that before?

Yeah. They come from marketing into perspective. Yeah. So, I mean, like I would, if I were running a giant corporation, it's like, well, you're doing R and D, right? Yeah. Okay. You're doing marketing, right? I mean, you're just doing R and D. So like, yeah, I'm just doing R and D. I guess. Thanks. You know, like all of the scientists and great minds involved in that.

Yeah. Just reduced down to one little word. You know, I think we've kind of established that just as a strong trigger word for a lot of people. Yeah. Carries a lot of weight, maybe some in, in a lot of people might not even know. what they're throwing out there when they do it. As we talked about this word and talk about it, it's funny how we still just use just all the time to talk about just.

It's, it's like water and air at this point, right? I guess my big takeaway from all this is that instead of feeling put upon, if you're hearing that from people giving you, you know, instructions or tasks, kind of reframe it and see it as an opportunity to build a bridge to understanding where it's coming from.

The person saying it might not even know they're saying it. Or they have a very, they've got it really figured out in their head what it is. Maybe you don't understand everything that's there that would make it seem like a simple thing. I think we all have other like kind of trigger words that kind of, that can really kind of get our goat in the middle of all this things.

I knew I'd make you laugh with that one. Just so out of the blue. It's shocking. It's just shocking. I wonder if I would laugh so much if I actually had a goat. Yeah, you'd probably get pretty triggered, really. If I said, hey, I got your goat, you'd kind of like, whoa, dude, come on, man. Yeah, what? What? Where is it?

Where, can I, am I getting it back? Like, I need that. Yeah. It's part of my dowry. I think when I heard it when I was younger, I felt like it was like, uh, piece of you, like your neck or something. Like I got your goat. Yeah. And then I think it's like goatee. Yeah. Like I got, like, you're grabbing me by my, yeah.

It's like short for goatee maybe. Yeah. Like that's such a strange term. It's a lot of strange words out there. That affect you in some weird ways, right? Surprise you. Yeah. So got your goat is a trigger word for you for happiness. I must've been, I'm thinking like 50 generations ago, I was probably some big goat dude.

So when I hear that now, it's like, I feel it like, you know, genetically. We've talked about this. We think there's a lot, a lot of other like trigger words that we could, we might have opinions on and everything. And so we thought it'd be fun to, um, well. Pull them out of a hat and let's see. Let's see what our response is.

Um, I don't know what any of the words in this hat are. So some of them may be, yeah, I may not have any feelings, but I might have some strong feelings about other ones. So we're going to riff on some trigger words, live reaction to play off some of those. So my reading them, you pick one, I'll pick one and then you go first.

All right. Okay. All right. Performance marketing. I think this is, uh, it's kind of a buzzword now, um, and it's kind of counter to a lot of brand marketing out there where, um, you're not measuring to the nth degree every year return on your investment and everything. I don't get too triggered by this. I think it's probably, it's a, it seems buzzwordy, but it's, um, It's probably, it sounds better to me than like direct response marketing.

I know you're not triggered. I'm not triggered by this. I think it, I think I have heard it a lot more recently, but I, it's not, I don't think it's, it's not that cringy bunch. It's slightly jargony, slightly, but I mean, Shoot. If you're a marketer, it's kind of standard. Ryan Reynolds invested in a company that bills itself as performance marketing for streaming TV.

Hold on a minute. Let me see the typeface on there. Okay. That's a nice typeface. I don't, I'm triggered by typefaces. So that's where I'm gonna be judging this. Maybe more so than the actual word. So just warning. Wow. That, you saying that's a trigger for me. So. Yeah, I know you. Yeah, you're trying to, Goad me into this but I'm not going to.

Maybe that's. I don't know. You ever see some of those shifty goats who look like they're up to something? Well, their eyes are, you know, they have the weird. Yeah, you know, like they're up to no good. Yeah, and they're usually up to no good Yeah, you gotta keep those things locked on. They'll climb up a tree and jump roof to roof if they needed to.

They're insane Yeah. All right, ready? I think so. This one's my trigger word This one's very topical, very of the times, very like VC language bro talk in a sense. Growth Mindset. Oh yeah. Growth Mindset. Let's have a Growth Mindset around this approach. It seems synonymous with growth. The role of marketing, a lot of entrepreneurs feel like who are struggling, maybe they don't have that growth mindset.

That one doesn't bother me as much either because I think it's like, sometimes it's coming from a position of lack, right? Like a pit and, and changing your, your thought to a mindset of abundance and doing things differently. With that in mind, to help grow your company. Yeah, I'm even just trying to define it, I think, in my head here.

Because there's a lot of different ways you could look at it. Uh, I guess as an entrepreneur, small business, I would think you're always in a growth mindset. So to me, it's a non statement, in a sense. Like, when would that not apply? Like a company that's just like, Whoa, let's just stay right where we're at.

Okay. This is hard enough. And I'm not arguing against that. That might be, my guess is if you don't have a growth mindset, you're probably not investing in marketing. It's an added expense. I don't want to have to carry. Marketing isn't an asset. It's a expense. It's a, yeah, it's a liability. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You're like something I have to do and I don't want to. So is growth mindset then used to telegraph to everybody involved that, Hey, everything we're doing is to keep things moving into it. We're growing. Is it more all encompassing? Is that the difference between that? Or is it something that everybody from the guy who vacuums the carpets all the way up to the top?

Is like we're growth mindset growth mindset like every bits of it's a religion.

I don't know about that one It's a big part of capitalism in the big right in the drive for constant growth and everything. It is capital It's like yeah, one little description of capital. Yeah, you have to yeah Yeah, like you're either growing or you're dying right? I don't hear death mindset too often.

No, no Or shrink mindset. No, no. We're really trying to shrink this department. So it is kind of okay. Let's move on. We'll try another one. Mike, go ahead. No looking, no peeking. I'm not gonna peek. Okay. All right. We got in today's digital world in quotes, what is Wired article doesn't begin with that. I hope Wired has moved past it.

I'm teasing. Yeah. Sounds like a Wired. Could be a Wired. I mean, this is one of those things that's just been driven into the ground. It, in, Messaging it seems like an easy thing to pull off the shelf in in copywriting for sure, right? Yeah, it's like the word just I know it's a filler phrase or it totally is a filler phrase.

Yeah In today's digital world. Well, yeah, it's been digital for a long time Yeah, I don't know who you're talking to when you're using this like who who's your audience that is gonna not You Like learn something from that. Oh, we're in a digital world. Ah, I gotcha. Oh yeah, so this is even more important.

Hold on. I would put another one in the same camp as this that you see a lot of times in copywriting and everything, is talking about taking, taking something to the next level. Yeah, that seems so like 50 years old. It's just like, like it's beat to death, you know? And I say that I think it's on our website at least once or twice.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Like we're, we're not immune to it too, but I always think, well, what are these levels we're talking about , what, like, are they levels of volume? Like going to 11? Are we going to 11? Is it levels in like Donkey Kong? Yeah. Like I got to the next level? Look at me, now I got a harder level.

It just gets beaten to death, I think. Yeah. That's definitely, I do get a little triggered when I see that. Not a lot triggered. Not just. Not triggered, but yeah, that is a, in today's digital world, that's on our website to be honest with you, it might be, we're going to go do some copywriting on our website when we're done.

So hopefully it's not there by the time this airs. Please don't look. Yeah, it'll be changed. We hope. I got one for you, Mike. You know what? Here on the marketing team of one podcast, we're very forward thinking and there's two crimes here. Forward thinking. Okay. What, I'm backward thinking? Have you ever used that phrase?

No. Okay, so we're always forward thinking, which means we're, you know Planning for success, growth mindset. They were kind of related, right? Somewhat, yeah. Look at this typeface. Yep. Fractor, let's call it. I'm sure there's a million different names for this, but. Not a fan of the black letter? Well, I mean, hey.

The monks of early Germany killed it with this font, believe me. They built the whole civilization around it. When was that? Like, 800 years ago. You've just Move on. See, you're completely dismissing the whole hardcore music scene. Ooh, wow. Okay, now I'm triggered, Mike. Cause that is You're accusing me of some sort of horrible crime.

You're, no, I'm not accusing you. I'm just saying that you're, that you're Well, by me dismissing this font, you now have put me in a category where I'm not I'm trying to think of where it's most prevalent, well, it's most prevalent use nowadays. It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Tattoos.

Yeah. That kind of scripty Germany kind of Yeah. I think there, I think there's still a place for it today. For what? In the right, in the right, uh, Right context. Forward, if you're forward thinking though, Mike, that's what's so funny. So let's get back. Let's get back to the forward thinking thing. The funniest thing about that is that the forward thinking phrase was set in a typeface established over 800 years ago.

Yeah. That's what I love about that. Okay. Okay. Uh, so many, uh, Problems with that. But, yes, let's get back to forward thinking. Mike, do you, uh, constantly engage in forward thinking? When do you engage in forward thinking? Almost to my detriment, I think I am always. Always forward thinking. Um, I don't think everybody is.

Like we did, um, as a, as a team, we did this thing called the, um, working genius assessment. Yes. Right. And so we went through and we identified that it aligns on six different, um, areas of strength, right. And your, your, genius. Yeah. Yeah. So link in the description below. Yeah. My, I'm guessing here a little bit, but like the people that are in the first part, so the first parts are like wonder and invention.

I think they probably are spending a lot more time doing forward thinking activities, like thinking beyond what, where, what the day in and day out and what needs to be done here. They're probably thinking, how does this apply to. our future selves. And I, but I think as you get further down and you get towards the, at the end, the last one is T for tenacity, right?

I would be willing to bet that a lot of people who that's where their genius is, they aren't as, they might not be as forward thinking in their day to day because they're more tuned to trying to get the job at hand done. They're not looking down, head down, let me get this thing done. So I think forward thinking is something that's, that's Important.

It's, it's vital for, for a lot of people. Um, but I don't, I don't think it's overused. Some of these phrases I think are just kind of stylistic turns of phrase on concepts that have been around forever. So this to me strikes me as I'm thinking about the future. I'm planning for success. I'm, you know, they all, you know, go back 50 years and there was a phrase that was similar to forward thinking, but maybe forward thinking wasn't established yet.

So yeah, it's one of those kinds of phrases that you're right. It's, Necessary leadership always needs to have a yep. You know, what? What's the next after the next? Yeah, like what where are we three steps from now? Yeah chess. Yep. You're always forward thinking exactly It's one of those games at the intersection of blank And blank.

We would see this a lot in the early, early days of Facebook when everybody wanted to make a Facebook clone. So he'd be like the, the intersection of Facebook and dog owners. So you'd have a Facebook for dog owners. It seems more like a pitch to a venture capitalist type thing that would, that is probably beaten to death.

They're like, Hey, we're trying to operate at the intersection of. This and this but I mean there's strength in that because there's contextual knowledge that you can use as a short Form way to get people to understand exactly what you're doing. I mean, yeah, it's nice about that It is there's some shorthand to it Like yeah, I guess the funny part would be the divergence of what are those two things that you're placing, you know Like you said dog owners and facebook and you could push that out to even further extremes, you know, we're at the You Intersection of avocados and grapes.

Shall we pitch that, maybe? It's kinda, feels kinda gross. Little tiny avocados? Like a whole bunch of them? Whole bunch. Maybe you eat the skins, too. You don't have to peel them. And there's no pit. It's more the form factor of a grape. Yes. Yeah. Portability. Portability. No knife needed. Okay. So, the, if we could make this happen.

Yeah. There'd be a lot of good benefits, right? Because It's a superfood. Just don't throw that in there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of Waste in avocados, I think. There is. In the house, right? Well, if you could just grab A gravocado. Gravocado? That is truly the intersection of grapes and avocados. Thank you.

That one's for you guys. You can have that one. Go for it. You know what? Let's invite our audience to just go do that as a business. Just make a grape avocado. Just make grapes and avocados as a avocado or one non GMO community is gonna be way come after you on this one for sure. I, I'm just, I I'm not doing it.

I'm not stepping into that. You put it out into the universe. Wow. Look for it in 25 years. Okay, I got one here. Beautiful type again. Another beautiful typeface. This is like some ghoulish Halloween typeface for everybody. Um, hey Mike. You know what? We'd really like you to do more with less.

That just hurts. A lot. Do more with less. Um, hmm. I'm triggered by that. Do more with less. Yeah. Like that just means the plane's going down. The pilots have parachuted out of the plane. They're, they've given up. Yeah. And you're, it's up to you to land this baby. You've got no help. You got no support. That's I'm playing the movie forward a lot there, but do you know what I'm saying like do more with less like why like I thought Like I'm doing as much as I can yeah, and I can't do any more like I need more It's kind of a slap in the face.

Yeah It implies to like I've what I've been wasting Yeah, it doesn't it does imply a little bit of like waste and everything I me I'd hear that and like challenge accepted. Let me figure it out. Oh, but that's me. Right, right Like yeah, okay Yeah, let's see. Maybe there's a, there's some innovation that can happen in that space.

It's not easy. It's not an easy pill to swallow in the beginning. But that, I like that though. I mean, there's so much innovation happening around a lot of different things. You're right. I mean, it could be like, oh, maybe this is an opportunity to like, clean up the efficiencies on things. And implement something more cost effective or something.

You know, I mean, I'm. Immediately going to like budget dollars right now if it's people helping you out and you that's I don't know Yeah, that's a little bit that one stings way more. Yeah, we're gonna ask you to do a lot more work with a lot Less help. Yeah, you can't handle these. Yeah, I've stabbed. Yeah.

Ouch. So it's a stinger stinger. Ouch Yeah, I'm not triggered by it when I hear it. I'm not triggered by it, but I could be. We need to pivot and reframe the narrative. Mm hmm. Those are two. It is, it's a double whammy, for sure. Ouch. Let's, let's, let's, let's take these out. We need to pivot. Mm hmm. I'm guilty of saying this.

It's I am too. I love it. I love the word pivot I could see how it'd be so annoying though. Yeah, I just did all this stuff. I gotta throw it all away now. It's a It's a more succinct way of saying we need to change everything and go in a different direction Yeah, I think that's what it implies and that's why it's so annoying.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz the the results of this Comroe will be yeah Destruction. Yeah. Yeah Reframe the narrative. Yeah. I feel like that's said a lot in PR offices, all over the place, right? I get sick of that. That's why they exist, I think. Yeah. Yep. That's their job. We need to reframe the narrative. Yeah. I think if you're, Especially if you're dealing in a more of like a story based approach to things, like the narrative, that Maybe that's why it's so popular, is it plays off of the strength and the, the um, effectiveness, but maybe newfound Pattern of marketing around story and building up story and it's like wow, we're gonna really pull on that But we're gonna now we're changing the story.

Yeah. Yeah, we're reframing It's used a lot and like when you're talking about I think when you hear political pundits and stuff like that They use this phrase a lot too. And so like I think it's been beaten to death a little bit Branding, messaging, they're all pulling on that a lot. Yeah, reframe this narrative.

Yeah, well, yeah. Okay, I've got one here that I use all the time. So, um, I'm not really triggered by it, but maybe this is an insight as to everybody who listens to me, they're triggered. When I use the phrase, best practices. That's like saying, hey, that's not our policy. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like, that's, it's a part of a prac, it's a part of what's established as a, as a pattern of behavior that results in success and it's been proven.

Let me rant a little bit. Mm hmm. I need to sit back. Let me get comfortable. I think it's relevant. I think with the word best practices, I think if it keeps getting thrown in your face a lot I think it could you could get a little bristly on it But I think I I have a strong opinion that best practices especially if you're a small team or you're a team of one Best practices are one of the best things, tools you have in your belt to have to be more effective.

If you're going counter to all the best practices that are out there, um, you're probably making it a lot harder on yourself and it's probably going to be less, less effective. So like the, what I like to use a lot when I'm talking with people about website, um, usability and everything. Um, I have this.

This term I use a lot. It's, I call it end around user testing. For example, Airbnb is famous for their amount of user testing and testing different interface things going on. Most people don't have the budgets or, or the teams. They've got a large team of like user experience research and, and everything to get to the point where they've got a website that is very, very usable to a very wide audience, right?

People don't have that budget for that. Right? So instead of investing in tons of research on your specific project, look at the people who you know are doing that research and that testing and developing those best practices and using those best practices save you so much more heartache. In the beginning than you would have if you're trying to do all that yourself.

So like, whereas like I get triggered when I hear someone say they don't believe in best practices. And I've heard it before and it blows my mind because like, I, it's like, yeah, man, you could, you could walk five miles to the grocery store. And, you know, because you're convinced that that's the way it needs to happen or there are cars and you can get in your car and do it so much, you're just making it so much harder on yourself for what?

Not with walking, there are benefits of exercise and stuff like that. I know what be the best. Best practices become best practices for a reason. They've worked, they've been tested. These large companies, they spend huge amounts of dollars doing this research and figuring out what works best in these industries.

Why not use those as a model for everything going forward? Especially if you're a team of one where you've got very limited resources. Like find, and maybe not competitors, I mean competitors are a good place to look, but like look at similar industries or, or I'm coming from a website perspective, like when you're, you're building out a website or designing a website, what, what are the tasks that their people are trying to do?

Let's look at how they did it. Why would we fly in the face of that? They've put millions of dollars in, in resources to try and get to that. Yeah, great solutions are usually built on the backs of other great solutions. It's just how it's been through time and memoriam as far as art, design, all that stuff is you build off of what's worked in the past.

So there, I mean, yeah. There's certain things that just work, right? And so, yeah, go with the things that work. All right, I got one. Move the needle. Move the needle. Yeah. What is this needle? That's what I want to know. And what kind of needle are we talking about? Just how about do like do better, make more.

Do better. Is there other wording you could use to describe increasing numbers? Because that's really what it's about. Yeah, I mean, it's like people have hung up on this needle. This, this mythical needle that's out there. It kind of reminds me of, um, icons that you see in software where the save button's a floppy disk.

Yeah. And the fact that it's still. To this day, has stayed that, and when was the last time you used a floppy disk? It was like two, three weeks ago. A while back.

That's how I still deliver my projects. We need to upgrade your system here. I talked to, you know, management. They won't upgrade. I'm still working on my Mac 2 CX. That's where I used it. Oh, I need to move on from that, it's so That's triggering. That's triggering. I think Let's move the needle on this conversation, Mike.

Yeah, I think I The needle is such an analog thing. Mm hmm. It's an analog way of describing that. So the needle should be showing the ideal set of moderation. See, there's a lot of interpretation. Yeah. Needle. That's what I mean. That's what, like, I think, uh, I think it needs to die. Take a needle out of it, because a needle is, okay, we're mo How about we're just making an impact, and we're changing things for better, or Maybe that's why, it's just these vernacular terms that Yeah.

Just imply, like, oh, I know what that means. Okay, so you want me to change this so that we get more sales? I think there's so much of it is it's it's rolls off the tongue so easy Like instead of just saying man, we need to improve these numbers. Yeah, there you go. Sounds so old fashioned Mike. Try another one See what we got.

There are a lot in here. Mm hmm That doesn't sound triggered. Triggering. Or maybe I've been misinterpreting it This, this is probably used a lot in meetings and every time it's used, um, a tree falls down in the rain forest, just falls down. Synergy. Ooh, yeah, I, yeah, it's got some meat to it, man. There's, I get.

I can kind of see where it comes from, why people use it, but gosh darn it, it just gets so overused and like, there needs to be another, like a vocabulary book of like what to use instead. This would be the first entry in that book. Start with an S. Are these terms taught in like business school nowadays?

Is that why they've become so popular? Or is it just part of the lexicon of what we're taught? our culture. I mean, there, this is the equivalent of saying that one plus one equals three. Yeah. Right. Like there's a, it's greater than the sum of the parts. Us working together is going to have an outsized outcome of things.

Yeah. None of those things I just said are, are in one word. And so maybe it's about brevity. Yeah. Using that one term that explains how all of us are working together And we're actually making things even better because there's so much synergy here. Yeah, this needs to go Okay, needs to go. We should have an eye roller right there.

Anytime you hear somebody say that that's your eyes. Yeah Yeah If you have too many of those you're just gonna have to have some. There should be a daily limit basically Yeah, you get one. Or plenty of ice packs in the freezer for everybody's eye strain All right. I got an actual triggering term here That's you know, I'm it's all I can do to like hang on to this piece of paper without Flying off the handle.

I've seen this throughout My career as a creative and early on it was triggering because it was so common The great thing is is that I think it's what became so common that it became this joke that everybody has heard about and seen memes on and so they I don't hear it that much anymore, which is great.

I mean, that's the power of I, I think I can guess what this is without you even, go for it. Gimme a try. Make the logo bigger. very similar. Ah, very similar, yes. Okay. You know what I like what I see here with all these concepts. I'm not feeling any of 'em though. I'm really, I don't like any of these, but you know what?

Keep working on it and I'll know it. When I see it. Oh my gosh. How much time do we have? This could be a whole podcast. It does fall into that just category of reductionist. Like yeah. Speaking and very close. They're they're siblings. Yeah. I'll know family tree. I don't know what I like, but I'll know it when I see it.

Or there's versions of this, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, there's always this judgment that's in there that they're, they're just fully forthright and holding onto this fact that they know that it's not right, but they don't know what they need to do to move forward with it. Yeah. When I hear that now, yeah, I hear that as a shorthand for, I lack the skills and tools to adequately communicate what I like.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't invested in understanding myself enough to be able to communicate to you anything. But, you'll figure it out. Just keep going. Working on my experiment of what will help me visualize. Or, I don't have the time to think about this, or the desire to think about this. It's a cop out.

It's a definite cop out. It's definitely. Yeah, and I don't know, maybe it's a power play too, it's just like this whole thing where now I'm going to take control of this whole process and you're just along for the ride, and you better hope and pray that I wake up one morning and feel good about what that is, or what you're doing.

I have a PSA for anyone who's using creative services. Like if you catch yourself saying, I'll know it when I see it, do better, do better, take time, take some time. Don't say if you catch yourself saying it, uh, go, Oh gosh, where can you. It's like, it's like checking yourself into rehab, not quite that far, but like somewhere where you can get like beat up or flogged, you have to do better.

You, that is a serious cop out. There are different ways that you can help the people that are giving you that to get to the result. You want you stopping short and saying, I'll know it when I see it is not helping. Anyone and you're you're creating more pain for yourself down the road, right? Use your words if if you don't do words good me know do word good if you don't do words good Try other things find pictures of things like say, I don't like this.

I'm having trouble explaining why, but let me do a little bit more homework and I'll get back to you with some feedback. But if you think you're doing your job by saying, I don't like this and I don't know what I want, but I'll know it when I see it. You're not, you're not doing your job. You're not, you're not being easy to work with.

You do better. You need to be replaced. Wow. I am really fired up about this one I know that the thought thinking is out there But I think people have done a pretty good job of removing that from their library of phrases as they go into these critiques But it's definitely uttered by people who are far removed from any sort of creative process Yeah, how they think about it.

They're new a lot of times. It was people who were new to thinking about Oh, yeah Oh, design. Oh, yeah. That. Okay. So that's on purpose. Yeah. Like, you know, yeah. Kind of reducing it again. Yeah, I think it, and it applies to words. It applies to a bunch of other things too. Like, take the time to elaborate. Even if it feels like you're blabbing and you're like, just get it out.

Get something to react to. Work it out. Don't don't shut it down right away and say I'll know it when I see it It's interesting how many times it takes sometimes to explain somewhat complicated concepts It may take two or three different ways of you explaining that thought or that clarity And that's something that should be handled in those meetings if people are kind of hmm.

What no I'm still not hopefully you've got a team that can Say I I don't understand that. Yeah, sometimes you don't though And that's a difficult situation where maybe a personality is so strong that they're just like overpower everybody and don't listen to anybody And that's a that's a different dynamic.

They're completely do better. Please do better So I think what I've learned from this conversation Mike is that I'm gonna adopt a growth mindset Some forward thinking to incorporate some best practices so that I can move the needle How does that sound? It sounds like a sentence uttered in organizations worldwide.

I learned that in today's digital world, it's important to have some synergy because we need to pivot. And reframe the narrative so we can position ourselves at the intersection of I'll know it when I see it, and just.

My nerve endings are just on fire at this point after hearing that last part there. That is a very nutritious word salad of overused buzzwords. Mmm. Delicious a trigger salad if you will Trigger salad. Oh my goodness. I think that you know, i've had enough Honestly, I think this is a really good place to end the podcast.

I think we can just wrap this up I I like the fact that the we just did our Next episode of the podcast. Now we, we can just publish it and promote it. I think there's a button to do that, right?

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